In Need of Ramos Tactical Advice

[DavicusPrime]

Here's my available models:

Ramos

Brass Arachnid

Steam Arachnids (3 magnetized sets of three so 3 swarms or 9 individual)

Electrical Creation

Howard L.

Joss

And I also have from the 2nd Wave Beta:

Kaeris

Mobile Tool Kit

Gunsmith (2x)

Fire Gamin (3x)

Large Arachnid

My first three M2E games I used the following in 50ss:

Ramos

Arcane Reservoir

Electrical Summoning

one other 2ss Upgrade that changed from game to game

Joss

Bleeding Edge Tech

Howard J.

Brass Arachnid

Steam Arachnid Swarm

Steam Arachnid

Steam Arachnid

Growing Pains:

I ran into a couple problems translating over from 1.5v... That Ramos can't just make scrap counters anymore set me back a little. I didn't plan ahead to generate scrap counters the first couple turns and therefore missed out a couple turns worth of Arachnid creation. And I forgot that the EC isn't a spirit any more so they leave scrap when destroyed. I would have sent it into B2B and let my opponent kill it rather than sacrificed it for the extra point of damage.

Things that worked:

I found sending the Arachnids into B2B of my target and attack if they can. Following up that with a charge from the swarm. And then finished off by Ramos' ranged attack. This was a great combination if you can coordinate it.

I used Howard as a tarpit that was very successful in one game. The free walk action he gets let me tarpit one enforcer classed target, while moving around him, staying engaged but letting him slice up other models that got close enough to strike. I also loved using the decapitate trigger to force my opponent to ditch cards.

Steam Arachnid Swarm! Love the new rules. The ability to eat all the Scheme Markers in a 3" aura really helped me thwart my opponent's VP accumulation. I was kind of bothered by their inability to split back up into 3 individual models at first, but I can't really think of a time I found that useful back in 1.5v anyway. In combination with the individuals in B2B with their target, this model can put on the damage. Add Ramos' ability to hit at range without having to randomize and you can take down some hard targets.

Things that didn't work:

I completely failed to figure out how to use the Brass Arachnid. To use the stoke ability well, you've got to already be in position to cast it using your other action to give yourself the extra :tomes. So I was either just out of position, or when I was actually in a good spot, I just didn't have the cards to make it work. Being able to reactivate a construct is awesome, but I really need to do a better job planning ahead to get the BA where it can do its job.

Not getting Joss into melee. Having Bleeding edge helped my arachnids last a lot longer than I expected. This worked for and against me. I wasn't getting the scrap Markers from them since they failed to die. And I found myself using Joss as a support model rather than the solid hitter he really is. Which also meant not getting scrap markers from his special abilities either.

Not using the EC as well as I could have. I used to use the EC as just another ranged attack from Ramos. Summon, move into B2B to get the free damage then self destruct if it's still alive the next turn. I'm thinking I might need to relook at how and why I'm using it. I've seen posts suggesting that I should hire an EC rather than take the upgrade to summon them to get that early scrap. But 2ss for the upgrade seems like a much better deal than a 4ss model that self destructs on it's 3rd activation. I've also seen it mentioned that you can have more than 1 EC on the table at a time. So I might need to go and buy a second model to try that out too.

So what?

So my question to my fellow Arcanists is this... Based on the models I have, how can I build a better list with and generally use them better in the new M2E environment? Any tactical and list building advice would be appreciated.

-DavicusPrime

Edited November 3, 2013 by DavicusPrime

[Dracomax]

OK. the reason people say to hire An EC is that if you move it on the first activation, and then use Ramos(0) Magnetism on it, You get a free walk with Ramos, and a scrap in range.

The reason that people might not look on the summon upgrade as great is that the other 3 Ramos upgrades all add to the crew.OTOH, if you want to max summoning/scrap marker use, it can be useful, and the EC is great for hitting those high defense models.

Also, keep in mind that what Joss kills(even your own crew) gets an extra scrap, and the Large arachnid kill constructs for two scrap.

You are going to want Under Pressure or Field generator, maybe both, depending on if you want an offensive game, or a defensive. The :aura6 of Arcing screen (which also effects Ramos) makes the spiders really, really difficult to hit with anything that targets Df. The to attacks from Under pressure means that if you bring heavy hitters, they hit harder.

Also, consider playing a game or two without the Brass Arachnid and bringing Imbued portection and/or imbued energies on Joss/Howard. Imbued protection can make them even more surviavable, bumping their Df up 1. it makes a difference, especially in range of Ramos arcing screen. Imbued energies is essentially 1 SS for either 4 extra cards, or one turn with fast.

If B.E.T. isn't enough, or you want to heal up some Constructs, take combat Medic. I usually don't, but it isn't bad.

Remember, though, the name of the game isn't kill the master edition. It isn't even kill your opponent. It's accomplish Schemes and strategies. You have an advantage here. The Steam Arachnids are all cheap, summonable(and you should not have any trouble getting scrap with Joss, the Large arachnid, and EC...)and most importantly, significant. Don't forget they get unimpeded, too. Scheme markers should not be a problem, especially with Joss the Unkillable and his most things ignoring Axe being a big old roadblock, and Howard being a right killing machine. People tend to ignore the spiders with those two hitting their backfield. If not, Howard has nimble, and Joss is consistant.

You also shouldn't have much problem with outnumbering your opponent.

I do have a few suggestions of models to pick up, though. They work well with the crew, and offer some options.

Rail Golem is a great beatstick, and after round 2, it isn't rare to see him move across 10", then make three attacks.

Johan brings some healing that isn't dependent on Constructs.

Student of Battle brings in fast, and a decent attack, if you can't make Brass arachnid work.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

BTW. My meta hates Field Generator...between the Df, the armor, and the http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/community/uploads/emoticons/default_Plus.png' alt=':+fate'> to defense flips, it takes a beatstick to take down a spider...and my spiders tend to spread out and accomplish goals if they don't kill them.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

As for list building, it really comes down to "build for your strategy/scheme" If you know, or have an idea what your opponent will bring, plan around that as well, but try to avoid being too pigeon holed into one playstyle.

[r4st4f4n]

OK. the reason people say to hire An EC is that if you move it on the first activation, and then use Ramos(0) Magnetism on it, You get a free walk with Ramos, and a scrap in range.

The reason that people might not look on the summon upgrade as great is that the other 3 Ramos upgrades all add to the crew.OTOH, if you want to max summoning/scrap marker use, it can be useful, and the EC is great for hitting those high defense models.

Also, keep in mind that what Joss kills(even your own crew) gets an extra scrap, and the Large arachnid kill constructs for two scrap.

You are going to want Under Pressure or Field generator, maybe both, depending on if you want an offensive game, or a defensive. The :aura6 of Arcing screen (which also effects Ramos) makes the spiders really, really difficult to hit with anything that targets Df. The to attacks from Under pressure means that if you bring heavy hitters, they hit harder.

Also, consider playing a game or two without the Brass Arachnid and bringing Imbued portection and/or imbued energies on Joss/Howard. Imbued protection can make them even more surviavable, bumping their Df up 1. it makes a difference, especially in range of Ramos arcing screen. Imbued energies is essentially 1 SS for either 4 extra cards, or one turn with fast.

If B.E.T. isn't enough, or you want to heal up some Constructs, take combat Medic. I usually don't, but it isn't bad.

Remember, though, the name of the game isn't kill the master edition. It isn't even kill your opponent. It's accomplish Schemes and strategies. You have an advantage here. The Steam Arachnids are all cheap, summonable(and you should not have any trouble getting scrap with Joss, the Large arachnid, and EC...)and most importantly, significant. Don't forget they get unimpeded, too. Scheme markers should not be a problem, especially with Joss the Unkillable and his most things ignoring Axe being a big old roadblock, and Howard being a right killing machine. People tend to ignore the spiders with those two hitting their backfield. If not, Howard has nimble, and Joss is consistant.

You also shouldn't have much problem with outnumbering your opponent.

I do have a few suggestions of models to pick up, though. They work well with the crew, and offer some options.

Rail Golem is a great beatstick, and after round 2, it isn't rare to see him move across 10", then make three attacks.

Johan brings some healing that isn't dependent on Constructs.

Student of Battle brings in fast, and a decent attack, if you can't make Brass arachnid work.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

BTW. My meta hates Field Generator...between the Df, the armor, and the http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/community/uploads/emoticons/default_Plus.png' alt=':+fate'> to defense flips, it takes a beatstick to take down a spider...and my spiders tend to spread out and accomplish goals if they don't kill them.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

As for list building, it really comes down to "build for your strategy/scheme" If you know, or have an idea what your opponent will bring, plan around that as well, but try to avoid being too pigeon holed into one playstyle.

I read it all like the excited briefing before a raid in some action movie xD

---------- Post added at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------

You know, with helicopter noise in the background

Ok, maybe also too much Bear Grylls o.O Argh, I now have his voice stuck in my head!

TV's ruining my life...

Edited October 25, 2013 by r4st4f4n

[DavicusPrime]

...Remember, though, the name of the game isn't kill the master edition. It isn't even kill your opponent. It's accomplish Schemes and strategies...

So true. I do tend to get distracted by the fighting a little too often. I still win by dumb luck but not as often as I might if I were to actually focus on the VP's. :slap:

Thanks for the advice so far.

-DavicusPrime

[Dracomax]

I've recently put a lot of effort into getting advice on Ramos Here:http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/M2E+Ramos.

It should be fairly accurate and current to Wave 1, with most if not all of the Tactical Advice I can think of based on what I have done, seen, and heard/read about in Battle Reports.

[Godgolden]

Humm.. it appears that Malifaux child can help the spider factory, especially if you get a handfull of poor cards, mix in joss who can make 2 scrap from the EC, you can even get the child to heal joss from that 1 hp for a 7 rams.

You could thoretically create 5 spiders and one EC from a recently deceased EC.

Mmmmm.... interesting.

[Dracomax]

Keep in mind that Malifaux child won't be around all that long--if you were to pull off the 5 Spiders, the Child has a massive target on his head, and Toptems tend not to last well against concentrated ire. It's more likely you could get 4 than 5, honestly.

Also, You don't need any part of an EC to make an EC. the only way to make an EC is electric creation, and that requires nothing but the upgrade, the AP, and cards.

[Hotpants]

Can't Joss just shoot the EC to get the double scrap and avoid the blast? No need to heal him turn one.

[Dracomax]

Can't Joss just shoot the EC to get the double scrap and avoid the blast? No need to heal him turn one.

Well, he could, if I could ever get him to hit the broad side of a barn with it. I've had such incredibly bad luck with that attack I tend to forget it is there.

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 PM ----------

great point though.

[Dracomax]

Also, don't forget that pull my finger is a wiki; If you see something wrong(we all make mistakes, or misremember how things work and don't check closely enough) or strategies, tricks, etc. That were missed, or simply want to add a model that hasn't been done yet, sign up and do it. Just check the getting started and the wiki

If there is a disagreement, there are comment threads to talk about it. Remember, alone, I can come up with strategies that will work on my friends. Together, we can come up with strategies that will work on anyone.

[zFiend]

Thank you Draco for that input.

I played with Ramos for one game a few weeks back and he seemed like a good master, though I didn't really know what to do with him I took him, Joss, Howard and two swarms for the start. Now after reading that I really wasted my soulstones

I have been trying to figure out good models in a Ramos list and have ended up in trying out either the Rail Golem or December Acolyte. I have atm Ramos and Howard, so if I want to build up a list I would need to buy Joss and (I think) 9 spiders.

What would you suggest about the Acolyte and/or the Rail Golem, are they a good choice?

Edited November 14, 2013 by zFiend

[Dracomax]

I haven't played with the december Acolyte, so I couldn't tell you one way or the other about that, however, the Rail Golem is always a good addition to Ramos crew. I usually put the 2SS imbued protection on him, just to get that 5Df. If you bring Johan, you can even keep him healed up. the thing to remeber about RG, is that he is a mid to late game hoss. You want to keep him back a bit the first few turns, and use resources to keep him near full health, but if you can get some small hits on him to get extra burning, it's a plus.

Once the RG has 2-4 Burning on him, you want to use your decent tomes to locomotion him into combat and get extra attacks. Once in combat, keeping his burning up is easy. But the low Df and potential threat mean that you want to make those first few hits count, because he is going to be a target.

I like bringing an elite crew of Howard, Joss, and the Rail Golem myself, filling in the small with Ramos spider creation. It creates a threat that none of my opponents have yet found a good way to respond to, while letting me create objective grabbers.

---------- Post added at 08:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 AM ----------

Keep in mind. it isn't that the swarms are bad. It's just that Ramos has no real problems with forming them later on, and can get more resources from two spiders than one swarm.

Even now, I firmly beleive that one of the hallmarks of a high level Ramos player is going to be knowing when to swarm them together. They have a lot of good about them. I just don't find they are a great early game investment most of the time.

[zFiend]

Cheers.

I was thinking about that Elite crew as well, I like to bring up major players (with Yan Lo I played Ancestor list and brought all of them, which I liked a lot) so to get my Ramos going on a nice crew set up I wouldn't need to make that many purchases. Some spiders, Rail Golem and Joss. I have to look into Johan as well.

How about Metal Gamin, I was looking at them as well, they could get some burning into the rail golem but not sure if they are of any use after that since they aren't that scary in my eye to the enemy.

[Dracomax]

Metal gamin are great if you have to protect an area. if you are planning on much movement, I haven't had much luck with them, as I leave their aura pretty quickly. They are less scary and more "i'm hard to kill, and I make other models hard to kill" (xcept not H2K, that's a game term. Just armor and high Df)

Johan is, for Ramos, a medium cost model who heals all things M&SU in a pulse, with a good melee.

The great thing about Ramos is that, unlike other masters, you don't have to choose nearly as much between bringing elite units and large numbers of mooks. it's also the biggest trap you can fall into with him, as there are some schemes and strategies where you might be better off not summoning much, or making sure that what you summon becomes a swarm ASAP.

[zFiend]

Okay. So it's another faction I'm digging myself deeper into, damn you Malifaux for making such interesting models! I'm already neck deep in Rezzers, have some Neverborns and some Ten Thunders. Now it's Arcanists because of Ramos and definetly Marcus (but I'm waiting for his 2.0 incarnation in January).

What got me into Ramos was the Howard Langston, the old metal version, there's a lot going on in that model. He seems kinda sad about what he is as the newer version just seems to be having a blast and the sadness gives it so much more depth.

It's hard to build a crew in M2E since you can use and benefit from every model. It's a good thing for sure, as it opens up for seeing the same masters with very different variations, but it's gonna be expensive!

[Dracomax]

It's hard to build a crew in M2E since you can use and benefit from every model. It's a good thing for sure, as it opens up for seeing the same masters with very different variations, but it's gonna be expensive!

Well, at least your plastic crack money is going to support a company that is far more positive than negative, as opposed to a certain company with initials of w and g which shall remain unnamed.

[zFiend]

Well, at least your plastic crack money is going to support a company that is far more positive than negative, as opposed to a certain company with initials of w and g which shall remain unnamed.

Heh, true. Also I like having the option to pick between metal and plastic ones, definetly get the one I like. When the new masters and minions come up, there is no comparison to darken the opinion of the new model

[Dracomax]

Still, I will recommend heartilly getting the alt spiders, or the plastic ones. cause 3 part metal steampunk arachnids are a massive pain to put together.

[zFiend]

Yeah I was looking at the alt ones, I didn't know the normal ones were in pieces. Thanks for the heads up! Big time! *cough* Yan Lo's beard *cough* I don't want to experience that again.

[Dracomax]

It's worse with the original spiders. They were metal, had two legs seperate from the body, and I know of noone who put them together without having stories about how they glued their fingers together without actually gluing the leg to the spider..

[mythicFOX]

Some very good points there from Dracomax.

I've been having a lot of competitive success with Ramos of late, and I'd echo his thoughts.

Even now, I firmly beleive that one of the hallmarks of a high level Ramos player is going to be knowing when to swarm them together. They have a lot of good about them. I just don't find they are a great early game investment most of the time.

I'd agree with this. I'd also say one of the key skills in Ramos play will be knowing when not to summon more spiders and use the AP / resources in a different way.

[zFiend]

Ramos sounds like a really deep master!

[Dracomax]

He can be. He has a lot of good options, and each one alters the way he plays. I don't think there is a strategy that is really bad for him, although some might effect the way he deals with crews. That being said, he tends to be weak at range and speed, compared to more specialized crews.

In addition to the other big models, I'd keep my eye on the beta for the mechanical Rider. She is looking quite good at the moment for him. Even with some cuddles, I suspect he'll like her.

ANother model currently in beta I've seen some good results with is the coryphee(not duet, just the individual coryphee) it's a minion, so benefits from all of the buffs you can bring upgrades for, including BET's regen. The only issue is it isn't M&SU. It's fast enough and just cheap enough to be a good objective runner, and brings decent attack survival with it.

[DavicusPrime]

He can be. He has a lot of good options...

This is exactly why I have been struggling to use Ramos well. So many options, and all of them viable, means I'm going to be needing a lot of games under my belt before I would consider myself competent. Add to that, relearning the game in it's new incarnation and it's going to be a very long time before I have a clue what I'm doing. Especially considering I only really get to play one weekend a month.

-DavicusPrime

[Dracomax]

You can be competent with his core crew and expand from there fairly easily. There are quite a few models I haven't tried much, or at all that would be good with him. I really need to get the Ice golem on the field a couple of times, for instance.

Just because he has a lot of variability with models doesn't mean you have to use it; he is perfectly good with just Howard, Joss, the Brass Arachnid, and a bunch of spiders. He just happens to have more options than that that he can be good with.