Three weird rules interactions?

[ttsgosadow]

We got three weird rules interactions, wonder what other people think about this.

Tara: player fielding tara and a burried killjoy. He activates tara first and uses (0) that gives reactivate when all other friendky models have activated. Question: does the burried killjoy count for this? Sure he's burried, but still a friendly model who hasn't activated.

Scheme interacts: a couple of schemes want you to make interacts on enemy models while in melee or nearby. But then you are engaged and cannot take an interact action according to the rulebook!!

Mei Fengs steam: mei fengs steam is worded totally different from langstroms. The way its worded it's super powerful, also has a negative effect on your own actions, stacks with cover, and - this is the weirdest part about it - has no interaction with kangs upgrade shapes in the steam. Meis steam doesnt affect los or whatever, so shapes in steam doesn't do anything.

[Sixblades]

Buried models are not in play pg (pg47).

Interact actions may be taken while engaged if they target an enemy model (pg 39).

[Ausplosions]

1: Killjoy is not in play, so does not count.

2: These Schemes will have a caveat allowing you to interact while engaged.

3: Correct.

EDIT: NINJAD

[mpangelu]

We got three weird rules interactions, wonder what other people think about this.

Tara: player fielding tara and a burried killjoy. He activates tara first and uses (0) that gives reactivate when all other friendky models have activated. Question: does the burried killjoy count for this? Sure he's burried, but still a friendly model who hasn't activated.

No Killjoy doesn't count. As stated by Sixblades.

Scheme interacts: a couple of schemes want you to make interacts on enemy models while in melee or nearby. But then you are engaged and cannot take an interact action according to the rulebook!!

Six covered that pretty well.

Mei Fengs steam: mei fengs steam is worded totally different from langstroms. The way its worded it's super powerful, also has a negative effect on your own actions, stacks with cover, and - this is the weirdest part about it - has no interaction with kangs upgrade shapes in the steam. Meis steam doesnt affect los or whatever, so shapes in steam doesn't do anything.

.. They are different.. Mei Fang is also a master vs a enforcer construct. And Kang's interaction is a simple synergy they have. You are reading it correctly. It is a defensive ability that while in it Kang can take cover in the aura and gives none out. If it was obscuring there would be issues in where he was positioned in the steam. The way it works is beneficial to them. Just the way it is.

[ttsgosadow]

Cheers, thanks for the replies. We missed it when looking over it

Still think Mei's steam shoukd be like. Howards. It's super effective though. Gave my rasputina opponent headhaches!

[mpangelu]

In her defence, Rasputina can cast through her own models. Each master has their own gimmick. The steam cloud is one of Mei Fangs

[Clement]

I'm gonna have to ask for clarification on the killjoy thing,

Tara's Eternal Moment doesn't have any kind of "in play" clause on it. That would mean that if she has to go after "all other friendly model have activated" then she needs killjoy to activate in order for her ability to work.

[mpangelu]

Suppose your line of thinking is correct.

Then the game is broken and can not continue. A model burried is not in play. If you are waiting on it to activate, then the game can not continue.

But also simply, Buried (pg 47)

"Buried models cannot activate. In addition, buried models are never considered to be in LoS or within range of effects. These models do not count as "in play" for the purposes of other rules that reference whether or not a model is in play..."

The first part of buried which I didn't type says it is removed from play. But that part that I did quote seems to sum up everything quite nicely in regards to the Tara rules.

[ttsgosadow]

I'm gonna have to ask for clarification on the killjoy thing,

Tara's Eternal Moment doesn't have any kind of "in play" clause on it. That would mean that if she has to go after "all other friendly model have activated" then she needs killjoy to activate in order for her ability to work.

That was my line of thought as well. Reading mpangelu's reply with "buried models cannot activate" does imply that they could be activated if this line of text wasn't included? If you follow that reasoning, Tara won't get reactivate unless the model that is buried had activated earlier - which it didn't in my game where Killjoy started buried.

[Clement]

Suppose your line of thinking is correct.

Then the game is broken and can not continue. A model burried is not in play. If you are waiting on it to activate, then the game can not continue.

But also simply, Buried (pg 47)

"Buried models cannot activate. In addition, buried models are never considered to be in LoS or within range of effects. These models do not count as "in play" for the purposes of other rules that reference whether or not a model is in play..."

The first part of buried which I didn't type says it is removed from play. But that part that I did quote seems to sum up everything quite nicely in regards to the Tara rules.

So you're going for the Activation Phase(p.35) "The Activation phase ends once both players have activated all of their models"

Makes sense I guess. No need for the drama.

[mpangelu]

Reading mpangelu's reply with "buried models cannot activate" does imply that they could be activated if this line of text wasn't included? If you follow that reasoning, Tara won't get reactivate unless the model that is buried had activated earlier - which it didn't in my game where Killjoy started buried.

That was the second paragraph of the Buried text from the rulebook.

Yes you are correct, other then Burried models being removed from play. There is no stipulation that models removed from play wouldn't participate. Even when a model is reduced to 0 wounds, it is considered killed. So there is an interesting distinction between buried and killed.

SO yeah, without that line of text, I can't find anything that would stop it other then being "Removed from play," though that is not adequately defined in the book to add context to the activations.

---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

Makes sense I guess. No need for the drama.

If you inferred any drama or insult, none was intended. My apologies for any unintended slight against you.

[Ausplosions]

Buried model not count.

It is simple. Something that is not in play has no Activation to spend.

Tara can reactivate even if a model is buried.

Which means she can then unbury it and have it activate after her.

It's how she works.

[Adran]

Regarding Tara, if you imagine the exact same question except you replaced Killjoy being Buried with Killjoy being Dead no one would even think there was a question. Yet in the rules neither model is in play.

A model that is not in play can not activate. otherwise you could activate dead models.

Likewise I think it is fair to mentally add "in play" to all abilities that don't directly effect a buried model, otherwise there are some very silly things that could happen.

And strictly speaking, the interact action has the rule that it can't take place if you are engaged, unless you are targetting an enemy model with the interact action.