Gorbad Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 No doubt, still, it can be very handy to be able to deal damage 12" away. Netted me two vps for Assassinate Sunday I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. Not a spell to use every turn, but certainly a spell that have utility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliverwind Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Kill the duet before it gains use soulstones. Alternatively simply play another DBOP master and kill all their stuff for fre. The lady j delivery system or panda come to mind. It is interesting that you play Yan Lo seeing as he gets to alpha strike in a way colette cant even compare to. His hun po assault kills all the things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtyr Posted May 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 His Hunpo Assault is also a Lvl 4, which takes a surprising amount of work to achieve. That coupled with focussing down Bone requires him to miss out on a lot of the survivability/manoeuvrability buffs that Ash and Spirit offers puts me off quite a bit. Also, what does DBOP mean? Kill all their stuff for free? I'm sorry to say that your entire post has me quite confused to be honest... - Valtyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliverwind Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 Well actually its far easier than it appears to put Yan Lo down all the paths. you begin with 3 chi points from stones then it requires 3 kills to get path of bone 4. with an additional 5 kills you get spirit 3. All this is easily achieveable before you reach the opponent on turn 1. You just have to be willing to pay a certain number of models to do it. And this is more than repaid once you get to your enemy with hunpo assault and melee master. Once you get to the hun po assaulting the enemy you will quickly rack up the chi needed to grab up your defensive options. DBOP is my own special acronym for Dumb Broken Over-Powered. It is reserved especially for lists that are capable of getting to you and killing a significant portion of your crew on turn 1. The reason I refer to them as killing the enemy for free is that they kill so many models that your opponent has very little left with which to attempt to kill these over extended models and the models typically have very strong defences anyway. I hope that clears things up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malal Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 Except that you posted your idea why Yan Lo is DBOP in a Yan Lo tactica and it was soundly debunked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliverwind Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Soundly implies that I was entirely wrong. And debunking implies proof that it does not work. What actually happened is that you spouted some numbers some of which were wrong then promptly declared it worthless. In reality you were partly correct. The result is correct my method was off. It has been corrected. and im sorry for any confusion that is taking place. Edited May 27, 2013 by sliverwind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTP Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Silverwind, you have this idea in 3 threads now.... even if it was a great idea, that would be overkill.... Edited May 27, 2013 by OTP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliverwind Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 I'm terribly sorry but people have asked for an explanation to the mere footnote I have mentioned in all three threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Goggles Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 I think at this point it would be best to take the flame war to personal comments and leave this thread out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinigami_Taka Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 wait until new MV2 Collette will be severely nurfed and you can beat her then. I personally love my Corphees they are annoying by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 wait until new MV2 Collette will be severely nurfed and you can beat her then. I personally love my Corphees they are annoying by far.Oh, I hope not, as she really doesn't need severe Cuddling. Honestly, Most of the Core rule changes combined with abilities moved to upgrades and minion simplification will probably cuddle her enough, if not too much. The Soulstone changes alone will likely make her a much less annoying opponent, and getting rid of the slow to die/soulstone heal Will almost certainly make her manageable, and getting rid of the SS unstoppable-ness of the mannaquin replacement trigger will actually make it less of an issue there, too. Much more will almost certainly be overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Small superstar lists are the worst against Colette because she will bury or mannequinify a key peace and then your crew will fall apart. Also the showgirls do not break any rules, they just exploit them to the fullest extent. Close. They don't break any rules, they have their own rulebook. Not quite Calvinball, but yeah, the first few times against them, even if you've read through them, seems like they're just Making Stuff Up. [Maybe that's why she's part of the M&SU.] Oh, I hope not, as she really doesn't need severe Cuddling. Honestly, Most of the Core rule changes combined with abilities moved to upgrades and minion simplification will probably cuddle her enough, if not too much. The Soulstone changes alone will likely make her a much less annoying opponent, and getting rid of the slow to die/soulstone heal Will almost certainly make her manageable, and getting rid of the SS unstoppable-ness of the mannaquin replacement trigger will actually make it less of an issue there, too. Much more will almost certainly be overkill. But then we have to look out for her ss auto-suit to pull off the trigger (assuming it's still structured the same). The resist # might be easier, but the failure is going to be an automatic mannequin. Edited July 31, 2013 by i_was_like_you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalcyonSeraph Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Oh, I hope not, as she really doesn't need severe Cuddling. Honestly, Most of the Core rule changes combined with abilities moved to upgrades and minion simplification will probably cuddle her enough, if not too much. The Soulstone changes alone will likely make her a much less annoying opponent, and getting rid of the slow to die/soulstone heal Will almost certainly make her manageable, and getting rid of the SS unstoppable-ness of the mannaquin replacement trigger will actually make it less of an issue there, too. Much more will almost certainly be overkill. My assumption will be that Mannequin Replacement will be on an upgrade and very hard. Other "save-or-dies" have been similarly reduced in power. Her ranges on the swaps and teleports will probably come down some (since 18 inches was sort of nuts) and the wording on the swaps will probably be similar to Tangle Shadows. Some new mechanic may have to be written to represent the "she's better at using stones" thing since additive stones aren't around so the "draw 2 keep one" is no longer relevant. Slow to die/soulstone heal is gone but I wouldn't be surprised if her "swap with a showgirl who then dies" thing stays. What made Colette so irritating was that she was specifically tuned to be good at the objectives and schemes in V1. If the strat favored her and you took some combination of Bodyguard/Sabotage/Power Ritual/Her Soulstone Scheme, you just 8-0d people, lost all your models except Colette, and didn't care. In some cases you locked up 8 unassailable VPs on turn 3 or so and then could go make a sandwich while your opponent played. It was dumb. But the game doesn't work that way anymore, so most of what made her broken is gone already. She just needs her ranges brought in line with similar crazy-movement abilities like Raven or Back Alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Play two Izamus but don't tell anyone. Or take a crew full of Jack Daws...then her crew really can't do much of anything =P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpobjects Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 What made Colette so irritating was that she was specifically tuned to be good at the objectives and schemes in V1. If the strat favored her and you took some combination of Bodyguard/Sabotage/Power Ritual/Her Soulstone Scheme, you just 8-0d people, lost all your models except Colette, and didn't care. In some cases you locked up 8 unassailable VPs on turn 3 or so and then could go make a sandwich while your opponent played. It was dumb. But the game doesn't work that way anymore, so most of what made her broken is gone already. She just needs her ranges brought in line with similar crazy-movement abilities like Raven or Back Alley. +1 ---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ---------- Wong. Any type of counterspell is going to destroy her, though Wong has animosity Ten Thunders, so he's not going to help you out anytime soon. If I ever think my opponent is bringing a casty crew Wong is my answer - even if I guess wrong Wong still brings enough utility to the table to make up for it usually. Even if your wrong your Wong. Priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm honestly not sure her ranges need all that much decrease, given that her crew tend to be relatively easy to kill, and not particularly high damage--the crew is designed to be a hit and run crew in M1E, utilizing guerrilla tactics(It's why I like her. the schemes/strats were just gravy). If they do decrease her range, I hope in general they increase model durability, or give other models short range teleport/pushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalcyonSeraph Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm honestly not sure her ranges need all that much decrease, given that her crew tend to be relatively easy to kill, and not particularly high damage--the crew is designed to be a hit and run crew in M1E, utilizing guerrilla tactics(It's why I like her. the schemes/strats were just gravy). If they do decrease her range, I hope in general they increase model durability, or give other models short range teleport/pushes. Yeah, the issue was that she never needed to HIT. She could just Run and win. They need to increase model durability, make her crew outside of the Duet and Cassandra useful as something other than glorified teleport nodes, and make her actually DO something to win a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yeah, the issue was that she never needed to HIT. She could just Run and win. They need to increase model durability, make her crew outside of the Duet and Cassandra useful as something other than glorified teleport nodes, and make her actually DO something to win a game. Which is why I feel like almost all of her OP-ness was fixed by the core rules. COmpanion chains going away means she can't bring mannequins just to chain; scheme pools mean she can't just take movement schemes, and the strategies are almost all balanced in such a way that she can't just evade and win on schemes. The only thing that outright seems a bit OP now is the mannequin replacement, and I'm almost certain that'll change. I'd like to see it as something like headshot, myself, where you can avoid sacrificing the model by discarding 2 cards or a SS, but we'll see what the devs come up with. If anything, I think she might be a bit under powered in M2e without some minion buffing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalcyonSeraph Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I think it can be better than headshot. Just give it a damage spread and add that if the model dies from it you get a Mannequin. Or just add that as a trigger to Magician's Duel. Make it similar to Monstrous Creation. The problem before was that it was a one-shot kill with no out that worked on everyone, was easily pumped to unresistable, AND gave you a model. Now that no-out one-shot kills are gone and so are soulstoning to unresistable totals, it has to sort of change structure anyway, and Monstrous Creation is a good template to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 +1 ---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ---------- Even if your wrong your Wong. Priceless. Two Wongs don't make a right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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