M2E - Necromunda replacement?

[TheRiddler1976]

So maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part, but listening to the interviews on certain podcasts, the designers mentioned an upgrade system.

This leads to me thinking - I wonder if they will include a campaign system in the rule set (or maybe in a future expansion), so that we can finally get a replacement for the long out-of -print Necromunda.

[Gorbad]

Well you got the campaign rules out at the moment, but that of course is 1e. Some of the interviews have talked about ways to link games together being included in the book, although not a full campaign system like that. Although that might come in a future edition of the Wyrd Chronicle. Also wouldn't it be closer to Mordheim than Necromunda? You might want to have a look at Infinity as well who just brought out a campaign system too.

[BC3]

I think the current campaign rules from WC5 have a lot of Necromunda flavor. All of the same principles are there. I think that if you want to run a campaign that 2E would probably be even better because it is going to be explicitly upgrade-friendly. The TTB RPG would probably be also a very good place to start for rules for a campaign.

As an aside, hats off to Necromunda. After a decade of running unsupported it showed it was definitely Hard to Kill and Slow to Die.

[Sevorin]

I think the OP is talking about how your models "level up" in between games, getting better each game. The answer is no, this is not what the "upgrade" in M2E means. There is no xp or leveling between games.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Also wouldn't it be closer to Mordheim than Necromunda?

With the warbands from different interests or creepy natives competing in a largely destroyed town for chunks of magic rock, I always felt like Malifaux, if not directly influenced by Mordheim, was at least the spiritual successor to Mordheim.

[TheRiddler1976]

I think the OP is talking about how your models "level up" in between games, getting better each game. The answer is no, this is not what the "upgrade" in M2E means. There is no xp or leveling between games.

I know that's not what the upgrade means, just saying it's now possible to implement it - for example, in campaign rules, everything starts off without any upgrades, then after each battle, you earn vp's or xp's which can be used to purchase upgrades to use in future games.

Models can be killed, weakening your crew, or eventually growing so big they get on the radar of the big fish out there.

It worked for Blood Bowl and Necromunda, and Malifaux is the perfect model count for this kind of thing.

I'll have to look at this WC5 - any ideas hwere I can find it?

Also, no idea about Mordheim - never played it or seen it unfortunatley.

[m1nd1ess]

Mac did talk in one of the podcast interviews (I think Through the Breach) about how Through the Breach and 2E are going to be able to go back and forth pretty easily between the two... This could be a way to do it.

[Gorbad]

I'll have to look at this WC5 - any ideas hwere I can find it?

Its in the download section of the Malifaux website. (WC5 is Wyrd Chronicles issue 5)

[TheRiddler1976]

Mac did talk in one of the podcast interviews (I think Through the Breach) about how Through the Breach and 2E are going to be able to go back and forth pretty easily between the two... This could be a way to do it.

Yeah Through the Breach sounds awesome. Tempted to back it, but it works out expensive with the $22 shipping

[Marcalla]

The inherent problem with the "gang" games from GW or any experience advancement game in general is that its far to easy for imbalances to sneak in. I like mordheim/necromunda and we played tons and tons of it over the years. But what always ends up happening is one gang doesn't get a bad "recovery" phase and ends up outpacing all other gangs or one person gets a really bad "recovery" phase (has 3 ppl die and two others drop toughness rendering them effectively useless) and so the campaign grinds to a halt with half the group not wanting to play the other half. And the "underdog" bonuses for playing higher rated gangs were no where near an effective or balancing range.

Now then if you had the upgrade's coming at a soulstone cost that might work, but as it stands almost any experience/campaign system will mean that one gang is always playing at a soulstone disadvantage.

I would suggest you try playing some games with a disparity between crews to find out how much fun an experience system would be. Try playing 25ss vs 30+ss crews for a few games. It isn't as much fun as it sounds.

Just my two soul stones.

[HalcyonSeraph]

Yeah, that style of campaign, where crews get out of sync and have no way to "respec" or catch up and there's no real effort to prevent death spirals, are really a hallmark of old-school design philosphies, which both Mordheim and Necromunda were made under.

A modern take on something like that would include ways to catch up if you fall behind or easily swap around what you spend your XP on, such that people can come in in the middle, and losing once doesn't doom you to failure forever.

I think a simple advancement league, where yuo simply start with 25ss crews and slowly build up your stable, either though some take on hiring pools (you get more and more stones worth of models to choose from but your game to game size remains the same) or through game sizes increasing over time, or both, would work fine. The more complex the XP system becomes the more places it will break, usually.

[Sniddy]

Having watched the opening salvo of our league hears what happened

Raspy crew

Raspy is now movement 2 with move through terrain - and has a lucky foot

The silent one is slow

The Orian is now a construct with armour 1 - he should also have a script or 2

Kearis

Kearis is now nimble from an upgrade

Rail Golems dead

Willie also dead

So now we have a crew with a 15 cost, and one with a 26 cost

Yeh the Kearis crew is in trouble

I'll fight the Vics, with McCabe

Even if he concedes the next 2 games he'll have enought script next round to likley be back to full strength

Upgrade light maybe BUT also he'd have no injuries, which may balance against our upgrades but injured....

The underdog bonus is pretty sweet in this game

[cain]

The system can lead to ridiculouse overpowered models. Sometimes you dont need so much upgrades.

Izamu with Immunity to slow/paralyze and added armor for example.

The underdog bonus is pretty sweet in this game

So sweet that you can abuse it. Play a 30ss game. Take a highly survivable master and nothing else and run away. Get 1 script for bodyguard, one for master alive and 15 scripts for underdog. Normal games give around 3 scripts. You get 17! This is just stupid.

[CRC]

So sweet that you can abuse it. Play a 30ss game. Take a highly survivable master and nothing else and run away. Get 1 script for bodyguard, one for master alive and 15 scripts for underdog. Normal games give around 3 scripts. You get 17! This is just stupid.

Are you assuming that you only have the master? Because you can't run away until you have 25% casualties...

If you're assuming you've got the 15ss crew above, then the delta is only 15ss, so you get ~10ss, which will go a decent way to closing the gab, but won't completely cross it. Oh, and you just gave the campaign leader 6 script...

[dirtycrabcakes]

With the warbands from different interests or creepy natives competing in a largely destroyed town for chunks of magic rock, I always felt like Malifaux, if not directly influenced by Mordheim, was at least the spiritual successor to Mordheim.

Considering that the "magic rock" was called "Wyrdstone" it seems like is 100% "directly influenced" by Mordheim.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Lol! Even though I loved that game and played it to death, it's been a long time, and I forgot about that detail...

[Sniddy]

The system can lead to ridiculouse overpowered models. Sometimes you dont need so much upgrades.

Izamu with Immunity to slow/paralyze and added armor for example.

So sweet that you can abuse it. Play a 30ss game. Take a highly survivable master and nothing else and run away. Get 1 script for bodyguard, one for master alive and 15 scripts for underdog. Normal games give around 3 scripts. You get 17! This is just stupid.

Its based on your roster not what you take, so no....you'd need to spend 2 games doing nothing to break even doing that and your cach would reduce your script per game...trust me the underdog bonus allows catch ups without breaking the game...it DOES favor oucast masters a little with the early 'soul stone tax' they start each campaign at 25 - most other crews with a cach of 4 start at 29, you get 2 script from your first few games...but thats a minor bonus and tbh I can see MKII having outcasts with 'stones