Casting spells through other models.

[Masters of Ulthwe]

Hi, I apologize now if this is a repeated question. I'm not familiar with Rasputina's spells and abilities or their correct names.

The question is this, can 'tina and her crew cast pulse and aura spells through other crew members using Ice Mirror/ Perfect Mirror? (Not sure of names here)

I was under the impression anything mirrored had to target an enemy model.

Thanks for your time.

[i_was_like_you]

She should be able to cast any spell through Ice Mirror, except spells if that model is currently in melee.

From her card:

Ice Mirror:When casting a spell, this model may draw LoS

and range from a friendly model with Frozen Heart within

6". These spells receive -3 Ca. Spells with the may

not be cast through a model in melee using Ice Mirror

From her entry on Pull My Finger:

Ice Mirror

Her most efficient tool for staying safe is her Ice Mirror ability, as it allows you to simply park her behind some cover while still blasting her spells away through her Frozen Heart minions. It's sort of like those spy movies where the guy has a mirror on the end of his gun that lets him shoot around corners. Do not let the -3 or -1 Ca from Ice Mirror scare you into exposing Rasputina earlier than necessary. A 6 Ca is still plenty high enough to hit almost any target. And if you have to cast through a Minion without Perfect Mirror (like the Silent Ones have), then you have Soulstones to help you out.

[Mach_5]

There was some question as to whether her White Out spell could be cast through a mirror, thereby centering the obscuring aura on the Mirror instead of Rasputina. The only Rules Marshall response I can find was from Ropetus back in 2011 here http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?22688-Ice-Mirror-and-White-Out&highlight=mirror+aura, which says yes you can do it.

[Paddywhack]

Isn't this similar to Nicodem and his Vulture with the Fog? It was pretty well agreed that although he can draw LOS and range from the Vulture, the aura for the fog still centers on the 'caster' and the vulture was not the model casting the spell. I know Raspy is a different issue, but it sounds like the same wording (don't have my book handy).

[Mach_5]

The rules are similar enough that I think they should work the same. I don't see any Rules Marshal rulings on the Nicodem one though.

All I can see in the rulebook (possible I'm missing something of course) is:

Spell Basics (pg 50): "Spells that generate an aura or pulse area effect, or affect all models within a certain range do not require a target to cast"

So neither of these spells require a target to cast.

Spell Range (pg 51): "Spells that target the caster have a range of C. Spells with or in their ranges follow the rules for Aura and Pulse effects respectively (p.20)."

Since they don't have a Rg of C neither of these spells target the Caster (not that they need a target), and follow the rules for an Aura on pg 20.

Aura (pg. 20): "All models within a number of inches equal to the aura's number (#), excluding the aura's originator, are affected for the duration indicated."

Notice the word Originator. Most models casting an aura spell would be the originator, since there's no way for them to cast from another model. In the case of Nicodem and Raspy however, they may measure range from a vulture or mirror respectively. In this case, the range is an aura, measured from the base of the vulture or mirror (the model the range "originates" from).

Now, I won't suggest this can't be taken more than one way because it's not terribly clear. I could only find one Rules Marshal ruling on either of these cases though (could be I missed it, the search function is not terribly accurate), and that ruling tells me the above is correct.

[egoon]

Notice the word Originator. Most models casting an aura spell would be the originator, since there's no way for them to cast from another model. In the case of Nicodem and Raspy however, they may measure range from a vulture or mirror respectively. In this case, the range is an aura, measured from the base of the vulture or mirror (the model the range "originates" from).

I would interpret originator as the model the spell originates from, not the range.

But that's the source of the ambiguity I suppose.

[Paddywhack]

Hhhmmm.. Interesting. While casting fog from a vulture isn't amazing, I could see some uses for it, especially against shooty forces. I would love a RM to clarify as you bring up good points, but last time the Nico one came up everyone said it wouldn't work. Its probably more imoportant for Raspy, but if she can do, then it looks like Nico would too.

I think the discussion about Nico came to the conclusion that while the range and LOS can be taken from the vulture, the model casting the spell is still Nico, so he would still count as the originator. Its been a while since I looked at those posts though.