Whipping the owner of my LFGS

[Lump]

Ladies. Gentlemen.

Close to a month ago today, I participated in an encounter of Malifaux with the man who sells me my models and other cool junk. I beat him. Thrashed him. Ground him into a fine powder.

Now... he wants revenge.

And I'm terrified. I've only played 3 game of Malifaux to date, using Misaki, against 2 different crews. I'm still just learning. And so, I have some questions.

1) How do I get the best out of Shang?

I've been looking over his stats and I've come to the conclusion that he makes for a great little cruise missile with which to soften up a target before Misaki swoops in to finish the job, but I'm sure that's not all he's good for. Any hints for using the adorable little fella?

2) How scared should I be of Pandora and crew?

One of the crews I know my opponent will be using is Pandora, and I've heard she's ridiculous in melee. How would I best go about dealing with her and her minions should I come up against her?

3) When should I use Taelor, when should I use Ototo?

They're both 8ss beatsticks with magical weapons, but what sort of situations should I use each for? Or are they roughly equal in role and interchangeable regardless of what I'm up against?

I'm looking forwards to your doubtlessly peerless council on this matter, and you have my thanks in advance.

P.S. I feel I should include a list of what models I own, in case it helps.

Open Spoiler

Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders

Shang

Ototo

Torakage x3

TT Archers x 3

Oiran x3

Taelor

[Ryu]

I wish you the best of luck! Onto the questions:

1) While Shang does have Flay and can do very respectable damage for a totem don't expect him to last more than 1 turn in melee with...well almost anything except MAYBE Malifaux Rats, unless of course Misaki kills whatever he went after.

I get the most use out of him by blasting things every now and then with his firey tail-gun and abusing the crap out of Lucky Charm. I view it as basically a free soulstone (though it isn't - because it doesn't add to you value) - or at least a free cheat. Rush of magic is boss. Shang only gets even crazier if you have some way to heal him (such as Yamaziko) for even MORE Lucky Charming.

2) Reasonably afraid. She's not great in melee, she's great with willpower duels and whenever you fail one you take 1+ damage (depending on her crew). She also gets to push 4" whenever she wins a WP duel which is evil.

3) Hard question. I'm a big fan of Ototo but he's much squishier than Taelor, he also has the potential to do far more damage. So it's up to you on the tradeoff there.

You'll also want to get at least 1 ten thunders brother as fast as you possibly can. They allow you to companion chain Misaki's whole crew (since they're all 10T except for a few mercs you may hire here and there).

[Hateful Darkblack]

1. Shang

I've mostly used Shang as an activation sink and good luck charm to make Misaki more deadly. His strong melee helps too.

2. Pandora

Pandora isn't tough in melee. She's tough ON YOUR MIND.

Here's the deal with her: you need to make a Wp->Wp duel to target her, and her Wp is quite good. Every time she wins a Wp duel she gets to push 4", and every time you lose a Wp duel you take 1 Wd damage (more if you're also near Sorrows).

She also has a lot of other ways to cause Wp duels, including Incite and Pacify, which pretty much just cause Wp duels, and she can keep doing them until she loses one. This gives her a potential Push of 4" per Crew member in YOUR crew: once she makes contact, she zips around fast.

And also, if you're immune to Wp duels? You lose that immunity when close to her.

Which means if you try to hurt her, you'll get a headache and she'll keep zipping along.

The way to beat this is to attack her in ways that don't target her. The most popular is to make attacks with blasts, and have them hit the Sorrows she keeps trailing nearby. Pulses and auras help too. The Archers have a nice spell for this.

3. Taelor vs. Ototo

Taelor's high Wp will help against Pandora. She's also great against armored units, but Pandora doesn't have those so much. She's slow, but a Toraswap will clear that up.

Ototo does more damage and has more endurance, which is great for many opponents but won't help much against Pandora, which is a crew full of tricks and confusions more than tough combatants.

I'd say go with Taelor.

[micahwc]

To kill Pandora you want blasts. If he brings a doppelganger, kill it as soon as humanly possible. It will make your life hell. If he links it to sorrows you will take a metric crap ton of damage every time you fail a WP duel, and you will fail a lot of WP duels.

If possible, don't let sorrows within 3 inches of you. You will take extra damage from WP duels.

I would recommend Taelor because she is hot, does a lot of damage, and has a high WP. If she can hit Pandora she can take a huge chunk out of her easily.

If you know how to fight Pandora she isn't really any harder than any other master.

Adding an Oiran opens up interesting possibilities because you could lure Pandora's support away; however, if you are within 12 inches and you lose a WP duel you will take damage.

Basically, focus on killing key models quickly and try to take Pandora out with blasts.

Edited March 12, 2013 by micahwc

[Argentbadger]

I can't help you on the specifics of the match up, or on the detailed uses of the minis you have, but I can provide you with more direct advice: play more games. There are two tournaments on this weekend (16th and 17th March 2013) in Scotland so if you can get to one or the other it'll give you 3 games against people who are very friendly and helpful. That way you can find out what works for you.

You can look in the events subforum, or get in touch with DavidKerrSmith for the tournament on Saturday in Livingston or Grumhelden (Barry) for the one on Sunday in Glasgow.

[Lump]

Small update: I just realized I wrote Pandora when I actually meant Lilith. My apologies for the confusion, and thanks for all the advice

[Letifer]

Just have to say, I am glad you made the mistake as this weekend should be my first time running misaki and my opponent will be running pandora. Good advice all around.

[ukrocky]

How to play against Pandora. It's all about denial of line of sight, and with misaki having diving charge, this shouldn't be a massive issue. Use terrain well, try and buy Yamaziko!

[micahwc]

I am primarily a Lilith player, so I hope I can offer good advice.

Most ranged attacks will put you in charge range of the nephilim, and many have special movement trick such as flight, float, scout, diving charge, etc. I would probably not advise using a lot of archers.

I still recommend Taelor for the same reasons. Her WP is high, which means it will be hard for Lilith to transposition her. She still does a lot of damage and is still really tough.

Lilith is one of the best melee masters in the game. Her defense is tied for the highest in the game, and as soon as you miss her once your combat drops by 2. This effectively gives her a defense of 10 after your first miss. Also, I wouldn't plan on wasting a lot of resources to get severe damage against her. I think it would be better just to hit her with a lot of weak damage.

Willpower is her "weak" stat at 6. Also, with a 6 inch move and fast, she can be just about anywhere on the board in a hurry. Don't count on her being far away. Also, with transposition you may find yourself moved around a lot against your will. This will probably cost a soul stone because he will want it to work.

She has blackblood, so try to attack her from more than 1 inch away.

Bring as many souless, undead, construct models as you can if you are worried about him growing nephilim, but honestly, if he is planning on doing that he will bring his own mobile blood counters, i.e. desperate mercenaries.

I don't think I would recommend the Oiyran, as luring the nephilim closer to you is probably going to hurt more.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I think a similar approach to Pandora would work fine. If you can bounce blasts off of easier to hit models you will ignore her awesome defense. The problem is that Lilith will probably not surround herself with a lot of models.

Keep in mind that most nephilim can move 12 inches and still attack you.

[iamthefly]

For Lilith. Check out her card, you can see it in the download section of this site if you click home (I think), go to neverborn v2. She has some cool tricks, dont bunch up too much. If he brings the Twins, kill one in one turn or they heal back, the male Lelu is easier to kill but dangerous in cc. One self districts without the other.

Most neverborn minions aren't too resilient so a few wounds on some of them will force him to be more cautious.

Just play for the victory points and don't plan on being alive too long. Pick the right schemes. That's what malifaux is all about.

Edited March 13, 2013 by iamthefly

[micahwc]

Any update on how this turned out? Did you crush Lilith? Or did her minions eat you?

[Kris.Sherriff]

So did you smash Dan?

We all want to know.

Kris

[Lump]

I was completely and utterly smooshed. In every way. I didn't even get to do anything meaningful with Taelor. It was awful.

But hey, it was a fun game. And I think I'm getting better, which is nice.

[Serigala]

I was going to say just keep buying from him.

He'll keep losing.

LFGS owners 101.

If he beat you (especially so completely) then he obviously doesn't know the basics. I'd take my business elsewhere! :Smug_Puppet2:

[Lump]

Honestly, I deserved it a little. I got an awfully big head after my first, admittedly very lucky victory. Little slice of humble pie for me.

[GTDemon777]

it's probably late for this, but:

1. shang, i just use him for lucky charm and an occasional downburst since it's surprisingly easy to pull off

2. well, now you know, careful of her pushing your models to the edge and farther

EDIT: i forgot to mention nor am i sure if someone else did: disassemble her crew is one way to go at her

3. Ototo is great if you can get him to half health and keep him there, so really if you know how to keep him safe. Taelor is great for objectives via Thunderstrike. Someone played against taelor in what was basically king of the hill, she just kept pushing everyone off, no one could stay in. Sidenote, Ototo wouldve probly been better against pandora. Since she does incremental damage, Ototo can get to CB 8, so just keep using.....Laugh Off? to get your wp to 8

Edited April 8, 2013 by GTDemon777