Nicodem the ZOMBIEmaster – but which Zombies to get?

[Zwergenkrieger]

Hi all,

I ordered Nicodem because I am thrilled by the idea of Nicodem being the ZOMBIEmaster and I highly like all kind of Zombie theme (be it movies, novels, games,...).

Well, let´s say I want to run Nicodem with nothing but zombies (ie every single model has to be some kind of zombie), which models should I get then? And why? And, of course, which models should I avoid?

Thanks for all your help!

ZK

[Jewomie]

crooken men and drowned are supposed to be good... haven't gotten my hands on them yet, but everyone says they are worth the ss cost. (well, not everyone... but lately they seem to be popular)

youll need a pack of mindless zombies.. mabye a few depending on how you end up playing him. i get by with one and some proxied by leftover models from your pool.

the rotten bells are SOLID support for only 4ss. i never want to take one... but am always impressed by them when i do

lastly my mainstay in a rezzer game... the samurai punks. they are great stuff. =] which you probably got if you bought Nico's starter box instead of just the model.

Also, side notes

If you really love the zombies, nicodem's avatar might do it for you.

the necropunks are "technically" zombies, and i find them very very useful as objective grabbers. (not as great as the night terrors, but they don't fit your theme as well as the necros)

same with the canine remains. =] they are quick and cheep. and if you have more than a couple they count as significant models!

I would stay away from Guild Autopsies at first. they are really cool looking, and make great stand ins for Mindless Zombies, also they are awesome for summoning, but they don't drop corpse counters so i would never hire one. never ever. i only keep mine around for summoning. =]

Hope this helped!

Edited February 25, 2013 by Jewomie

[Zwergenkrieger]

youll need a pack of mindless zombies.. mabye a few depending on how you end up playing him. i get by with one and some proxied by leftover models from your pool.

How many do I need? Is one blister (3 models) enough? Or should I get more?

the rotten bells are SOLID support for only 4ss. i never want to take one... but am always impressed by them when i do

We,, rotten belles – favourites of mine due their look. I think I have to get some.

If you really love the zombies, nicodem's avatar might do it for you.

I´ll have a look at him then.

the necropunks are "technically" zombies, and i find them very very useful as objective grabbers. (not as great as the night terrors, but they don't fit your theme as well as the necros)

Although I read some nice threads about Nicodem with a horde of necropunks, I don´t like those sculpts. On the other hand, I see their use, which makes it difficult to stay away from them.

Hope this helped!

Yes, thanks!

[Jewomie]

well, as for how many Mindless Zombies... that depends on who you ask. I imagine most people will say you need at least two blisters of mindless zombies. My thought is though... one is enough, then just sub in any models you aren't using at the time to proxy for the rest. I usually just check with my opponent (which outside of a super competitive league, no one will likely care as long as you can keep the MZ proxies straight from their regular sculpt. IE a Belle vs a Belle that counts as a Mindless Zambie.)

I will bet that you need a bunch once you unleash his Avatar though. I haven't used it, but i have heard a couple of horror stories. =]

I don't think you need a hoard of Necro Punks. one blister comes with 3, and i don't think i've ever taken more than two. I usually just grab one for something like Treasure hunter and exploint their (0) Leap spell to scoot across the board real quick while the rest of my hoard shambles behind.

I will admit, i'm not a huge Nicodem fan. I usually play Dr. McMorning who has no use for (or ability to summon) Mindless zombies. So i can't get too much more specific on how many you'll need there. When i do play Nicodem i have never really have more than 5. So i used the three actual scuplts i had, then subed in a belle and a necro-punk that i had waiting in the wings as a possible summon. keep in mind that i spend more time using his buffing spell and bringing the pain, than i do trying to summon things. (which is why i opted for the good doctor instead. )

Again, i hope this helped. =]

[HtUnliving]

Necropunks are awesome in eg. Deliver Message but also need cards so situational. Canines are fast all the time and cheap, but don't pack the same punch and die very quickly.

Like I said, situational.

I've needed 7 Mindless Zombies at my best and that wasn't even Avatar, so... Luckily there are options: aside from the regular Mindless and Wyrd's own Living Impaired from the Twisted, there's a game called Empire of the Dead (sold on Firestorm Games for example), which has an awesome box of Victorian Zombies. Haven't bought them yet but looks promising. (As an soon-to-be former Warhammer FB-player, I got me some 100+ GW Zombies which work if you don't hate the figures. They are cheap, or atleast have been before.)

But on regards on what to play with Nicodem, I'v found that the most cost-effective are IMO the Crooked Men and Belles, which as it were work wonders together. They are cheap at 4ss a piece and both offer different sorts of board control. The Crooked are better in my views because they are more resilient and offer ranged and melee capabilities with a side of board control. I would at the most take two Belles but usually just one.

Drowned have good abilities, if somewhat limited range, but their problem is the same as the Hanged's: they don't leave Corpses.

Hanged. are. Awesome. Spirits so they have resilience and costly so must be used correctly but their abilities of Wp-bashing, board control and attack power is great.

Rafkin is a good support piece but only better than the more resilient Mortimer. Even if you just want Zombies, Mortimer is a good solid choice.

Although, I'd find out about the new wildcard Toshiro, who offers movement and melee support. Not sure about him, as I have not seen the full rules, but looks promising.

If you take him, find some Samurai Punks as they are cheap, beastly in melee and somewhat resistant. They are an awesome meatshield until they get into melee they do murder.

This list can be rounded off with Izamu but he is so much talked about in this forum that don't need to.

So, my list of Zombies would be: Crooked and Belles, Necropunks, Samurai Punks (if you want these, the Undertaker's Lot is a good choice), Canines, Grave Spirit (cheap totem with utility and Linking Armour). Then maybe Toshiro, Mortimer, Hanged and Rafkin.

[Uncle Caveman]

A case can be made for every "zombie" model in the game. Nicodem makes undead models shine. In most cases Belles, punks, and crooked men are more than enough to shred everything and keep your opponent off their strategy by paralysis and moving them around against their will. The drowned are a good tar pit. I don't really play resurrectionists, I am only citing the things I have figured out for myself and those that have worked well against me.

[HtUnliving]

Belles, Punks and Crooked are good models to keep close to Nico, ay, that is true.

And also the fact, like Uncle Caveman said, that any Undead work with Nicodem. Even more unorthodox choices, like Jaakuna Ubume, would find its uses.

But my opinion as a primary Nicodem player is that begin with the basics and try out what you want to use and what works. The starter box + Crooked Men and either Canines or Necropunks are imo the best start.

[Gruesome]

Seamus boxset, Grave Spirit, Canine Remains and a pack of Crooked Men are nice pickup.

From the boxset, the belles are really useful and while I am not too big a fan of Sybelle, she fills the 6 point slot when you need to and with Nico's Bolster and an attached Grave Spirit, with Nicodem Decaying her or the Grave Spirit for healing, she can actually be pretty tanky.

[ddot]

A case can be made for every "zombie" model in the game. Nicodem makes undead models shine. In most cases Belles, punks, and crooked men are more than enough to shred everything and keep your opponent off their strategy by paralysis and moving them around against their will. The drowned are a good tar pit. I don't really play resurrectionists, I am only citing the things I have figured out for myself and those that have worked well against me.

I played my first game with Nico, punks, crookeds, and canine remains. All were golden with Bolster Undead up. With +2 CB and Df, crookeds are hard to shoot, punks and canines (less so) hit like a ton of bricks (especially if punks can use flurry). Paired katanas at +2 Cb ( on attack flip) helps to hit, and just might help to get the Rot trigger off ( on damage flip), which is huge as they do good damage (and up to 3 attacks).

As has been pointed out, crookeds have a great board control tool in Shafted. Successful casting places a marker, so it can't be resisted, and it has some nasty effects if someone gets too close. It's particularly nasty if you can get some Paralysis on a model. Activate and cast shafted next to a paralyzed model. Some ugly choices will result. (I just read the errata, if a paralyzed model forfeits its activation, will it still set off a Shafted marker?)

Canines... they're not terribly tough, but they are fast, do decent damage, and the Rabies trigger might be interesting if you get it off. With Bolster Undead, they can be nasty on the attack. For their points, so far I think they're a steal.

That's my opinion based on one game, but these three models have a lot of potential with Nico. I'm going to drop Morty for my next game and add two more dogs and a crooked just because of their oddballness. One, Morty is not undead, so doesn't benefit from BU, next, he mostly just cast Exhume (my flips were money- 3 crows flipped out of 5 attempts and I was able to cheat the other 2).

I would like to try a few other oddball options with him as well. Killjoy for one. That dude is nasty without gaining +2 Cb, and he can get the Drag trigger off a little easier with it. Bete Noire is also a nasty-looking option who might become hilarious with Depraved tactics and two good triggers.

[HtUnliving]

Bete is just ugly with Bolster. Had her kill a Victoria and Taelor in the same game on subsequent turns. She died in both. I find that Necropunk have the right amount of resilience and movement to deliver Bete where she needs to be.

An interresting option with Mortimer is not to take Grave Spirit but Necrotic Machine, because even as it loses Strength from Below, it gains the ability to make Mortimer into an Undead so he will also gain from Fresh Meat, and has a better Ca than the Grave Spirit.

Molly also works with Nicodem as she can copy both Exhume, Reanimator and Fresh Meat. Combine with Carrion Effigy...

But these are not, imo, core options. First the basics, then expanding. IMHO Bette is better than Killjoy but if you choose him, Necropunks are almost mandatory. Or any other Slow to Die, like Samurai Punks.

[i_was_like_you]

I've needed 7 Mindless Zombies at my best and that wasn't even Avatar, so... Luckily there are options: aside from the regular Mindless and Wyrd's own Living Impaired from the Twisted, there's a game called Empire of the Dead (sold on Firestorm Games for example), which has an awesome box of Victorian Zombies. Haven't bought them yet but looks promising.

Here's a pic of the Victorian Zombies:

Not too shabby, if you can get past those teeth. And the belle in the bottom right looks like she's trying to initiate ye olde bro fist.

Although, I'd find out about the new wildcard Toshiro, who offers movement and melee support. Not sure about him, as I have not seen the full rules, but looks promising.

If you take him, find some Samurai Punks as they are cheap, beastly in melee and somewhat resistant. They are an awesome meatshield until they get into melee they do murder.

This list can be rounded off with Izamu but he is so much talked about in this forum that don't need to.

Toshiro can add some additional summoning and summoning flexibility to the crew. He gains a Conflict token when a friendly Undead model within 6" inflicts one or more damage on an enemy model with a melee attack. He also may gain two Conflict Tokens if a friendly Punk Zombie or Ashigaru within 6" is killed by an enemy model. He then has the spell Eternal Servitude to turn four Conflict Tokens into a Punk Zombie or Ashigaru. [It'll take him a 9 :crows which you'll already likely be hoarding for Nicodem's summons, but a well-timed, well-placed Punk Zombie, that doesn't steal any of Nicodem's AP could be a game changer.]

Speaking of Ashigaru, they can be a great addition to the crew, as they are Undead. However, they are technically skeletons, not zombies, so if that makes a difference on your theme, you can always omit them. Besides, they are only sold in Yan Lo's crew box, unless someone will trade / sell them to ya. [I think both Toshiro and the Ashigaru go great with Nicodem's crush on all things Three Kingdoms.]

[ddot]

Great, more online orders for me... those Victorian Zombies fit in with the theme very well. Now to come up with some names...

It's good that everyone seems to like the Necropunks. I'll have to consider them as a future option, although I'll have to get my core book (lending it to a friend to read the fluff.... and possibly to recruit...?) to check out their full potential.

I still like the Grave Spirit overall as a totem. Armor 2+Link is a hard combo to overlook as Nico has no movement shenanigans (kinda wasted on my primary Master, Pandora+Sorrows).

Anyway, off to do some modeling for Bete. Aufwiedersehen.

[i_was_like_you]

Necropunks do have a lot going for them for just 3ss each. Leap, while requiring you to flip or cheat a 6 :masks, will send them up to 7" away for (0), still allowing them to (2) Flurry when they get there, which will give them more chances for Rot to trigger.

Arachnid makes them very mobile, if they need to actually walk somewhere.

Hard to Kill makes them very resilient, meaning they have to hit them twice (unless they use something that deals Wds instead of damage, or they use a kill effect like Headshot), and when they do kill it, Slow to Die can get them one more swipe in melee.

As an extra, situational ability, Overpower gives Slow to enemy models activating in the melee range of two or more of your Necropunks. Coupled with Hard to Kill, and most models can't finish them off that turn. Use Nicodem to drop Decay on their heads, and they can heal 2 Wds while the enemy model takes some damage.

[If the enemy model has low Wp, target that model 'stoning to get a high resist, then drop the blast on your Necropunks. If the enemy has a high Wp, target your own Necropunk, cheating up and down to get a cheatable damage flip, then the Necro still heals 2 Wd and you hit the high Wp enemy with the blast. Either way, it resets the Necropunk's Hard to Kill, as they'll have the requisite 2 or more Wds to need to be swatted twice, again, and chips away at the enemy's wounds. Necros make great artillery spotters that way.]

Are you looking to get the regular or alt sculpt of Bete?

[ddot]

Got classic Bete primed and ready to paint after I catch up on some sleep. If I try to start painting her now, I'll make some mistakes, get frustrated, and toss her in the Simple green jar... when I'd really like to get her finished for the weekend.

Your overview of necropunks makes me want to put them on my list of priority purchases.

[i_was_like_you]

Can't wait to see Bete. I gotta redip my Lilith crew. I'd stripped the paint, but then the new primer got smudged.

You're welcome.

[ddot]

Sounds like you use spray primer, which I got away from years ago for a variety of reasons.

I use paint-om primer. You can probably pick up Citadel primer at your FLGS, which I consider a true benefit of the popularity of GW games. The new Imperial primer is pretty good although I recommend cutting it down a bit as it tends to come out thick.

If your store doesn't carry it, ordering Reaper's paint-on primers is even more worthwhile than the Citadel primer. It generally has a better consistency, and they come in black and white, and if you're into gray primer, they mix pretty well. (Some people have used them in their airbrushes with good results, I'm not one of them.)

One of the really nice benefits is that it gives me a final "dry run" on the mini so I can determine the best methods for painting it. I won't say it's made me a better painter, but I have had fewer problems priming models with them (which has included the dreaded "fuzzies" and "smearies".)

[i_was_like_you]

Yeah, just Krylon, but usually I don't have a problem with the results. This time I rushed things, and things got smudged. Will redip 'em, remount 'em on bases, and try again. I now have two competing paint themes for my terror tots going through my head, so I'll be doing three one way and three the other. Probably paint regular Lilith to match one set and alt to go the other route.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Krylon is pretty good in general, and I've never really had problems with it. Not that this is a painting thread, but if you are interested I use something different right now.

Give Rustoleum's Camouflage series of paints a try. I was skeptical at first about it, but someone swore it was much better than what I was using and it was. It makes a very tight bond, on the new plastics once it had dried, I had to work to get any of the paint to come off. It goes on smooth, and didn't obscure any of the detail on the new plastics either. Just a thought for the future if you are interested in trying other spray primers.

[i_was_like_you]

I've used other camo paints before (leftover freebies from the army), and had good results. Next I'm going to try some textured paint, as I have the Hanging Trees and both Lilith and Zoraida's avatars that need painted. Gonna give it a test drive on a few other models first, though.

[Zwergenkrieger]

Wow, guys, great answers here!

Sorry, I was off for some weeks so I couldn´t write here.

Speaking of Ashigaru, they can be a great addition to the crew, as they are Undead. However, they are technically skeletons, not zombies, so if that makes a difference on your theme, you can always omit them.

Yeah, theme s pretty important for me! Even the Necropunks don´t fullfill my own requirements concerning "being a Zombie!!!". My list of possible Zombies!!! is pretty restrictive.

@all:

Thanks for all your help here!

[HtUnliving]

Sorry if I sound rude, but how does not Necropunks fulfill the theme of Zombie?

[Zwergenkrieger]

Necropunks IMO are kind of undead construct, ie they never lived in that special form. For me, a Zombie has to had a real life before he became undead. I hope you understand what I mean.

[HtUnliving]

Yeah, I understand. But what if you converted some zombie, eg. animal zombie, to use as Necropunks? They are just that good.

And besides, Necropunks in Malifaux have been some sort of living being at some time.

[i_was_like_you]

They are incredible for their cost.

Besides, Lady J and the Guild deem them, and Steampunk Abominations even, as zombies, no matter how they came to be.

[HtUnliving]

I've planned on buying the Koji-blister from Bushido the Game and using the monkeys as Canines, but they might be good counts-as-Necropunks.

Or some conversions from SPAs?