PokiePrawn Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 New to Malifaux, new to Hamlin. The rats are driving me nuts, complicated little guys. Is this how this all works? Can I do this? I activate Hamlin, he summons a Child within 6, he then uses a spell sacrificing the child (the child is only sacrificed IF the spell goes off, right), creating a rat. He can then sacrifice that rat, but that does not generate yet another new rat. This is correct? Also, blight counters are NOT removed between turns, meaning if I hit a model 5 times with rats in turn 1 that model would still have 5 blight counters in turn 6 (unless shrug off etc)? Thanks so much, and sorry if the questions are blindingly simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Question one is correct, due to the Stolen have a rule i believe saying they spawn a Rat when killed or Sacrificed. However sacrificing usually means no Rat is spawned. As for your second question, i do not know the wording of blight counters so i can not give an answer. However, unless it specifically states they stay on permanently, then you lose them at the end of the turn. But as i said i do now know the wording and so can not give a proper answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Effects end at the end of the turn unless specified otherwise.. Counters are not Effects so they do not get removed at the end of the turn.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokiePrawn Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Thanks, that is very helpfull! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I have a further Hamelin question. So rats activate simultaneously within 4" of each other. If the first rat kills an enemy. Does the new rat join the chain when the second rat activates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IChewSoulStone Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I believe so. Since the wording is that when this model activates, simultaneously activate all other Malifaux Rats within 4" that have not activated this turn. Going to the companion rulings (Also a simul activation), start of activation effects happen whenever a model activates in a chain. An example is you can companion with Yan Lo, Chiaki, and Izamu. Have Chiaki walk next to Izamu and Izamu will heal from Chiaki's rule even though they were activated at the same time. Atleast, that's how I understand it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drool_bucket Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) edit: Nevermind, I re-read the question and missed part of the logic.... I agree with the above post!!! Edited February 18, 2013 by Drool_bucket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I have a further Hamelin question. So rats activate simultaneously within 4" of each other. If the first rat kills an enemy. Does the new rat join the chain when the second rat activates? No I don't think they do. All models that are being Simultaneously are announced, and then count as being activated. Selecting the model and completeing its activation is not the same as activating the model. I Can't read the rat pdf to check exact rules, but from waht I remember the phrasing is "activates" rather than "begins its activation". The Companion clarification should help here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IChewSoulStone Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 No I don't think they do. All models that are being Simultaneously are announced, and then count as being activated. Selecting the model and completeing its activation is not the same as activating the model. I Can't read the rat pdf to check exact rules, but from waht I remember the phrasing is "activates" rather than "begins its activation". The Companion clarification should help here. I don't think that's right... Companion works by announcing all models that are activating and then activating one at a time. There isn't much difference from "begins activation" and "activates". You have to begin activation in order to activate. The wording is also "When activating this model". Companion is one of the most confusing rules. The whole point of it is to allow you to go with several models before your opponent activated one but the wording on simul is what messes it up for most people. This would be a good question for the Rules Forum since I can see where you're coming from Adran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Breakdown of timing for Simultaneous Activation 1. Nominate models selected to be Simultaneously Activated. 2. All Models selected count as having Activated at this point. (Abilities like 'On the Trail' check now as it says 'if it activates within') 3. Select each model in the Simultaneous Activation to perform its individual Activation. Repeat a-e below until all of those models have activated a.If the model is Paralyzed it forfeits its Activation. (Skip to next model) b.The model's individual Activation Begins/Starts (Poison, Terrifying, Regenerate, and other effects that say 'Begin their activation' happen now) c.The model's AP is generated. d.The model spends AP. e.The model's individual Activation Ends. The section from the Companion clarification. I don't think the "when this model activates, simultaneously activate all other Malifaux Rats within 4" that have not activated this turn" fits the step 3b, but instead is a step 1 matter. So creating a new rat in an activation in step 3d isn't going to allow it to join in as step 1 isn't reached again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I disagree. I think it fits 3b perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Adran is right. Note that all the rats in the initial group count as having activated in Step 2. Although you resolve their activations individually in Step 3, they count as having activated in Step 2, therefore no newly created rats can piggyback into the activation chain during Step 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Is it Poison? Terrifying? Regenerate? Another effect that says '...Begin their activation...' ? I don't think it is. So I don't see it fitting in 3b. Other effects that state when this model activates are looked at in steps 1 and 2. (Such as "on the trail"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I agree with Adran - while the ability isn't worded exactly like Companion, it's mechanically similar enough to expect that it would be treated in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 if and when you kill a stolen which effect goes off first, the wp-13 duel or the -2 Wp. is it the stolen models choice of how to apply the effects or is the model who killed the stolen choice of effects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 if and when you kill a stolen which effect goes off first, the wp-13 duel or the -2 Wp. is it the stolen models choice of how to apply the effects or is the model who killed the stolen choice of effects? The Pulse happens before the stolen is removed from the game ( so that you can measure) then the test is made once the model is killed/removed. The pulse happens first. Because if the model hadn't been killed and removed first then there would be no test to take yet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IChewSoulStone Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Thanks for posting the ruling and breaking it down Adran. I agree with you and Mike now. Hats off to ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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