Jakob Lynch's (+1)Card Trick and What is Intended

[hippieshopper]

Jakob Lynch's "(+1)Card Trick: This model's Controller Discards 1 Control Card, then this model receives 1 General AP. This AP cannot be used to Cast Spells."

VERSUS

Gremlin's "(+1)Reckless: This model may suffer 1 Wd to receive (+1)Fast."

Rules as Written

Currently, so long as Jakob Lynch has a hand, he has an incredibly high number of AP he may spend, as there is no limitation on the amount of AP he may gain through discarding Cards to receive additional AP.

This is especially problematic if his player gets a lucky streak with his two Dead Man's Hand spells, as he could have something around 7-9 AP in a single Activation.

This is incredibly overpowered because of the Auto-trigger on his gun that can do incredibly high amounts of additional damage.

Our Question

Is Jakob Lynch's (+1) Card Trick intended to give him an absurd number of AP if he so chooses?

[Cunning]

You only ever get 1 AP per turn from any (+1) ability.

I'll see if I can fish out a ruling for you.

[Finnegan]

If I remember well, no (+1) ability can be used more than once per activation. As such, Lynch can only discard one card to gain one AP.

EDIT: Ninja'd D:

[Cunning]

Here you go: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?33856-Resolved-Issues&p=448884&viewfull=1#post448884

Q. Can I use a (+1) Action more than once per activation?

A: No. Although (+1) Abilities are listed in Actions for player convenience, they are Abilities, not Actions and therefore cannot be performed multiple times in an Activation. Reckless, for example, cannot be performed more than once in the model's activation.

[hippieshopper]

Here you go: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?33856-Resolved-Issues&p=448884&viewfull=1#post448884

Hm, I suppose that makes sense.

Our question then would be; why word it as it is worded? Why not just "Discard 1 Card, this model gains (+1)Fast." as all other models who have similar mechanics do?

[Csonti]

Hm, I suppose that makes sense.

Our question then would be; why word it as it is worded? Why not just "Discard 1 Card, this model gains (+1)Fast." as all other models who have similar mechanics do?

Because they are different Abilities. Lynch's +AP can't be used for casting spells. (The intent was probably to limit the Dead Man's Hand spell potential.)

[Adran]

Hm, I suppose that makes sense.

Our question then would be; why word it as it is worded? Why not just "Discard 1 Card, this model gains (+1)Fast." as all other models who have similar mechanics do?

That would have 2 different effects. Firstly the action point from Fast could be spent on spells (such as Dead mans hand). Secondly Jacob would be unable to gain fast from another source.

[ukrocky]

Bizarre to limit such a poor and situational spell!

[Alfndrate]

Bizarre to limit such a poor and situational spell!

I agree, but I've been on the giving side of the 6 card turn before (three odds in my hand, 3 discards for my opponent) a lot recently, but that's just luck. I've been using Lynch with a stitched recently so I can use Dead Man's Hand and Gambler to get rid of any low cards the first one might pick up.

Edit: At least it's DMH isn't limited to a single use per turn.

[Csonti]

Bizarre to limit such a poor and situational spell!

I see it differently. If HD is out, Jakob is in dire need of cards to get a pair, without it, the crew's potential is ruined. So in these cases the ability to get 2-3 cards is more than charming. Even at a cost of giving the opponent some card recycling chance. (One of his Master specific sheme also needs a lot of cards to achieve.)

And if you are able to push/Heed My Voice a victim within Mr. Tannen's aura then it is nothing but party time. Fill your hand and drain the opponent's -> win. But I agree with you that this later use is situational.

[ukrocky]

The latter use requires you to use tannen who hasn't found a place in my TT crews or Neverborn! The example of casting to get a pair is a good idea one, and I've done it once or twice for reasons outside but that's it. Thread derailed...

[Gruesome]

It is an interesting difference in wording. I had always assumed its the way that people seem to be saying...

But, the explanation in the past of the +1's was that using them simply gave you whatever the ability that was listed.

So, once you were "Reckless", there was not a purpose in trying to get more "reckless". Being "Nimble" or "Fast" were things that you only got once, so there was not purpose in trying to use the +1 to re-grant those abilities as you already had them. The example in the other direction would be a paralyzed model getting paralyzed... Does nothing. You are already in the "state of paralyzed".

But the wording for Jakob's does not add an ability to you. It simply says Discard a card and get a general AP.

Now, I suspect it WOULD add an ability to you if there were such an ability as "No-Casting Fast".

And I suspect that's the intent and how I'll play it until I read otherwise.

But I can understand the OP point.

[Soundwave]

But the wording for Jakob's does not add an ability to you. It simply says Discard a card and get a general AP.

Now, I suspect it WOULD add an ability to you if there were such an ability as "No-Casting Fast".

And I suspect that's the intent and how I'll play it until I read otherwise.

But I can understand the OP point.

It's the same as Levi's Necromantic Sacrifice ability, which also can only be used once per activation.

[Cunning]

It is an interesting difference in wording. I had always assumed its the way that people seem to be saying...

But, the explanation in the past of the +1's was that using them simply gave you whatever the ability that was listed.

So, once you were "Reckless", there was not a purpose in trying to get more "reckless". Being "Nimble" or "Fast" were things that you only got once, so there was not purpose in trying to use the +1 to re-grant those abilities as you already had them. The example in the other direction would be a paralyzed model getting paralyzed... Does nothing. You are already in the "state of paralyzed".

But the wording for Jakob's does not add an ability to you. It simply says Discard a card and get a general AP.

Now, I suspect it WOULD add an ability to you if there were such an ability as "No-Casting Fast".

And I suspect that's the intent and how I'll play it until I read otherwise.

But I can understand the OP point.

This has already been cleared up as per the ruling I posted up from Ratty. (+1) actions can only be used once a turn.