Taking Down The Lillith Grow Crew

[Hunter-thom]

HI All,

I would like to throw this question out there...

How is the best way to take down a Lillith grow crew, i have been playing my kirai crew at the moment and have been enjoying it. However, i have come up against a the grow crew before and i really think its the hardest crew to take down in the slaughter and movement type encounters that i have played against. I have hasd some thoughts about taking out the component models before there full use has been achieved but i think any god player would be using other models and terrian to block LOS and protect things like the mercs and Nekima before they do there thing..... Anyone got any ideas or firm strats for dealing with this. before i end up facing 2 mature nephs, lillith and nekima? as well as some other tots running around?

[Barbagianni]

You can try to force them to split up, so they have to either stop growing or risk to be badly flanked. Terrain here plays big part though.

[Cunning]

Some of the most effective Kirai tactics against Lilith I've seen is using Insidious Madnesses to put Lilith on -ve Wp then have her spirits target Wp instead of Df.

Also, Jack.

With no magical attacks Lilith can really struggle against him. And with the whole crew being living this can cause issues.

[LupusFerreus]

Could you also use the Insidious Madness with Jaakuna to lure Lilith or another key model (Nekima, Twins, etc) to Paralyse them?

[Adran]

I would have thought the Kirai list should have had little troubling it in a lileth grow list.

It is trading time for model improvement. You can do that with a much better variety of model.

You also have the chance to increase your starting forces, with the lileth crew can't do.

And they are remakably low on the magic weapon front, meaning you only take half damage.

There are probably 2 ways to handle that sort of crew. In Pure slaughter (where killing models is actually worth something) then you want to make good use of Ikyro, whose death doesn't help your opponent at all. Ideally you will attack with Ikyro 1 activation, then kill her and summon a new one with kirai, and then attack again.

In missions where death isn't outright worth points, feel free to summon swarms of models to keep the Nephlim occupied, and replenish your forces with Kirai. Make sure you focus your attacks on 1 target to take it out as fast as possible, as you have the advantage in activation control, its best to make use of it. Terror tots are worth going for if you can get to them. Gaki are probably a good choice for this sort of combat as they are slow to die, and easy to maintain a consistant number of them. They can also steal corpse counters which will hinder the Black blood shamen if he is using one.

[Hunter-thom]

Thanks for the thoughts. this guy i have played against takes more or less every time reguardless off strat

Nekima, 5 tots, 2 Des mercs and the arcane eff... and by turn 2 there are 2 mature nephs running around and lillith is hunting objectives.. I want to know if it is possable to stop them growing before it all happens. I think Jack Daw is a great idea and is prob first on the list to try. I have been thinking off pairing him up with a spirit Izamu and then just going after lillith first. strats depending. Any ideas what crew you guys would take in a slaughter type encounter against this grow crew?

[Adran]

Firstly I've never used Kirai, I've only sat on the otherside to her, so exact tactics might not be right, but should be pretty close.

You probably can't stop him killing the mercs and getting 5 blood counters between 2 tots and Nekema. He'll probably also have got at least 1 young.

Using Datsubo and Kirais in the spirit world and swirl spirits can move her past the middle of the board and then you can summon Ikyro 12" away, so you will probably summon into combat. She can then activate and probably kill at least a tot or a young with her 2 attacks (Its safest to focus on tots with blood counters if you get a choice, but if you think you have the hand to kill a young on 2 attacks then go for it). If Ikyro gets killied, then its not a loss. If she gets to activate in turn 2 her 3 attacks can probably kill nekima or at least get her low enough to not get the 6th Blood counter (although if you've killed somethign on turn 1 her blood sense would have given her this already).

If Lileths crew doesn't kill the activated Ikyro, swirl her to Kirai and absorb her, then summon another one to do similar damage. You've probably already got a decent advantage in Kill points at this point in Slaughter.

Using the Lost Love as your totem will keep Kirai safe for a while.

Models to consider are Shikome to kill Nekema (can get attacking her on turn 1 if you want), The Hanged can stop healing.

Jack daw will shut down the list almost completly. Models which attack vs Wp will bypass Lileths df 8.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Bête Noir

That is all

[Blog]

>2013

>still playing grow lists

[Mehter]

>2013

>greentexting

Although my initial reaction was the same.

[Gruesome]

Not really following the last few posts unless, I guess, their intent is to mock lists that other people are playing?

I don't get it...

[LupusFerreus]

Is Bête Noir a good idea? Could be a decent counter.

I think what Adran said is sound. Use the setup time against your opponent to get in place, if you summon models in that time, by the time they get to you your slows will have faded and you can set yourself up for kill zones, the Ikiryo slingshot and gaining Seishin from this to repeat. As a new Kirai player, I'd like to see how I'd do against a grow list. We'll have to wait and see how the concept of such a list changes with Nekima's revisions due soon.

[Hunter-thom]

speaking of her revision, any idea when it is happening.... I think the the slingshot is probably the best idea so far. followed by swirling in jack daw and try to get izamu in there with some extra move buffs. Do you think the datsu ba would be a must in this type off list cause i would be thinking off taking Lost LOve. Izamu and try and turn him into a spirit and jack daw, After that i'm not sure maybe a Desp Merc and try and turn her into a onryo with Datsu ba, or mayeb Molly and try for some totem shannannagennnns..

[mathuclo]

I posted something like this in another thread wondering how Kirai gets around Shared Slaughter. My ideas are to keep the start low with spirits. Run the 5 seishen and maybe a datsu-ba. I like the datsu-ba for the added attempts at healing and that is about all. The rest of the list is Izamu and other models of you choice (I recommend a chikrai). The main focus here is to summon 2, yes 2, shikome on turn one. Each one of these guys/girls (whatever these ugloy models are) are uneffected by slow when summoned. The goal here is to use hunting parter with one onto the other and vice versa. These two paired together will just obliterate the bored. This is where the datsu-ba plays a vital role in keeping them alive, along with LL and Kirai. Izamu is in there for the added bonus of having LL make him a perma-spirit (which also can single handedly win games{object 2 spirit for the WIN}) an attack landing up to 10 wounds will only do 3 to him. Now add all this up and add in Chikrai to get rid of any negative effect (yes even things like brilliance) will also help. On the plus side you can start with an Onryo out and make Izamu lose resistance to WP duals, then Chikrai can move this whole cluster around quite nicely. When it comes to Shared Slaughter my take is point denial. Don't worry about killing his stuff, that will come all to easily, worry about keeping your stuff alive to keep the pressure on. Plus all these are spirits and Lilith lists (aside from Nekima) can't really do anything to you (1/2 wounds)

Hope this helps. I played a friend with the exact same list (it's net build) and managed to not lose a single model!

Oh, after the initial summoning of the two shikome try to make Kirai a spirit so datsu-ba, LL, and herself can get some healing on. THEN turn two you can summon the Ikyro up the field and pull everyone in (and then have Chikrai pulse them all up before activations)

Have fun and let us know how your murder fest goes against Lilith!

[Hunter-thom]

haha. by chikrai i take it you mean Chiaki, the niece? and by pulse them up you meen her 6 " movement buff that pushes all non living models? hmmm which non living models do you meen... cause as far as i know izamu would be the only one i would take. the rest would be spirits...... and why is nakima doing full damage against spirits? You have me a little confused.

[FearLord]

Spirits aren't living...

[mathuclo]

haha. by chikrai i take it you mean Chiaki, the niece? and by pulse them up you meen her 6 " movement buff that pushes all non living models? hmmm which non living models do you meen... cause as far as i know izamu would be the only one i would take. the rest would be spirits...... and why is nakima doing full damage against spirits? You have me a little confused.

Yeah spelling error on my part (also meen=mean^), yes I ment Chiaki, the niece. By pulse I mean her purity spell, which is a pulse. This model's controller pushes all NON-LIVING models directly away from this model until those models reach the maximum range of this spell. Spirit qualify for this spell as they are non-living, and Izamu qualifies for this spell as he is undead.

Also why only take Izamu. Chiaki has utility written all over her. Models within 2" heal a wound at the start of their activation. She can get rid of any status, (poison, brilliance, slow, paralyze, ect.) and she give AMAZING movement bonuses to the entirety of a Kirai list. As far as Izamu, he has immune to influence which means he would not be effected by Chiaki and her purity spell, thus the reason to take the onryo at the start. This allows you to use the spell mark of jigoku to make Izamu loose immunity to WP duals, thus allowing chiaki to be able to purity him.

Pretty sure Nekima has a magical weapon, which would qualify for full damage against spirits not 1/2.

[Hunter-thom]

fair call. i really hadn't spent much time on her as yet. not a bad movement buff, it does leave her behind right? umm no i don't think nekima has a magical weapon... she may get one though, you never know.