Dark Debts - good for start?

[Gabbi]

Hi all, by long time I keep an eye on this game, since its convertion to plastic I'm more willing statting playing it.

I like the Dark Debts box minis (especially the guy with the horror on his head, looking as it's going to eat him). It's any good to start?

I've already asked on BGG and be redirected here.

What I should add to starter box? I would prefere to keep on plastic as much as I can (or at least, on metal figures in single (or very few, very simple to assemble) pieces).

Also, since for every game I play I usually collect at least two forces, to be able to lend one to a friend, what oter starter should I get?

I love Rasputina model, but I've read somewhere on the web her starter box isn't very good so purchasing individual miniature should be better. In this case, what should I get?

Otherwise, what whould be a simple to use, straightforward and aggressive crew?

Even better if it's in plastic.

Thanks in advance.

[MudgeBlack]

Welcome,

For Dark Debts, I would add at least a pair of Beckoners then see how it goes and decide where to go after a few games.

For a second crew, in plastic, fairly straight forward, I would say The Thunder box, they have a few shenanigans, but can play fairly straight forward. I would also recommend adding Yamaziko to that crew.

Just my $0.02, hope it helps.

[rancor709]

First and Foremost don't believe everything you read on the internet, Secondly welcome to malifaux. Thirdly

Dark Debts is a great boxset to begin the game with, the crew its self if Lynch, Hungerying Darkness and 3 Illuminated that would be the guy being eaten by the cloud monster. Out of the box the crew is built for aggression with some tricks that get deeper as you expand the crew. The entire box is plastic and most of the key support models are also plastic.

Key expansion models for this crew are but are not limited to Beckoners those flapper girls that keep the party going, and I highly recommend the Mei feng or Rail Crew Box set. Not only does it give you a second master for the 10t but there is a lot of cross over between the two boxsets if your going to be playing lynch. Additionally if you like Rasputina the Rail Crew are also arcanists which is what raspy is and gives you a start to your collection.

How Dark Debts plays:

Jacob Lynch is your pun intended Lynch pin, he has a neat spell that is like a gambling game you get more cards in your hand and your opponent may get cards or could lose cards. Even his gun has a gambling trigger built in. He always gets to cheat last, which helps him stay alive but he is fairly fragile for a master guard him well.

Hungarying Darkness: HD is a big part of your muscle, he is what you want to really threaten your opponent with. Additionally he has a neat spell that can make your opponents model do something you want it to do. Very strong damage out put, fairly hardy and Just mean looking.

Illuminated: Fast foot soliders of the boxset: They have some self healing, some armor and some great damage output. They can also put out brilliance with there shooting attack, solid melee pieces but in typically neverborn, 10t fashion they are a little on the fragile side. Hits hards, but can shatter fast.

Beckoners-These ladies provide a very reliable source of brilliance so Huggy Can feed very easily. Great 5 stone model with some additional movement tricks.

How Rail Crew Plays.

The Rail crew is built around Mei Feng

Mei Feng: Is very much chung li from street fighter, even more so when you consider she is built to be combo intensive. She can utilize her triggers to gain additional actions through her turn. She beats people up old school combo style.

Emberling: Faithful totem that lets mei feng draw an extra card in the draw phase while alive, yeah its just as awesome as it sounds.

Kang: the best beat stick in 10t, a hallmark piece that heals as the game goes longer. Strong melee output, great reclinecy a great piece for any 10 thunder crew

Rail Worker: The internet hates them, but I like them just not as arcanist models. As 10t they are a nice cheapish infantry piece with a whole bunch of neat tools on there attack. Additionally a defensive trigger that is pure fun.

Hope this helps

[Gabbi]

Thank you mates, so I'll get Dark Debts!

As for other crew, usually I don't like very much asian-inspired factions in games (in spite of my love for real far east Asia), so I think I'll go for the rail workers alone.

[Edit]

Dark Debts ordered! Not found the rail workers, and it seems that the beckoners are due to be released later in January.

Are the translucent colored bases of any practical use?

Another question, if you don't mind... What 10t means? Ten Thunders? Is it a faction?

Btw, thanks again to both of you, for your replies!

Edited December 27, 2012 by Gabbi

[marshimartian]

Yes, 10t, or Ten Thunders are a faction of which Mei Feng and Jakob Lynch are a part (in addition to their home faction).

Beckoners are currently out (December release)

[Cats Laughing]

10T = Ten Thunders

Ten Thunders is a mostly Asia-inspired faction, but there are some portions that are not heavy on the Asian influence. The Dark Debts - Lynch box is one. The McCabe - Relic Hunters box is the other. McCabe's box is not officially released yet, but there was a presale with Wyrd's Birthday, so that will explain why you might see some pictures of models and stuff on the internet.

Note, since Lynch and McCabe are both Ten Thunders, they can work together. Also since McCabe is Guild and Lynch is Neverborn, they can also be used against each other.

I think the McCabe box might fit your desire for a non-Asian, all plastic, and aggressive* crew.

*I assume they can be played aggressively, but I'm not 100% sure, nor am I certain what is meant by aggressive. There are only a few models I can think of that act in a passive (buff friends without attacking enemies) manner. Most models will need to act aggressively to get much done in this game. It's more a question of why kind of aggression you want; ranged, spells, melee. Melee even has varients of charge in and beat face or pull opponent to you then beat face.

Railworkers are part of the Mei Feng boxed set, currently, and we are not certain when or if they will be released on their own.

For Lynch and his Dark Debts box you will want to add Beckoners.

After Beckoners you can add Depleted, Mr. Graves and/or Mr. Tannen.

All of those options are plastic and work for Lynch as either Ten Thunders or Neverborn.

Lynch also can hire Sorrows and Stitched Together. Those models will be metal, but I think they are also 1 piece. I recall that he has a few other hiring options, but off the top of my head I can't remember what they are. Also I'm not sure how much he needs or wants those other options.

He needs/wants Beckoners at some point. I think he likes Depleted. The two "Misters" are nice thematic choices. I also think Wastrels from the McCabe-Relic Hunters box are a good thematic fit with Lynch. They look like the types that might frequent the Honeypot Casino...

Edit:

Also, Rasputina is a good Master to start with. She's relatively simple but has some interesting tricks to learn. Her box does come with models you might not use very often. The Ice Golem is typically considered to be on the weaker side of things. Ice Gamin are also not thought highly off, but are at least cheap enough that their weakness is a bit expected. You'll want at least one Ice Gamin with Rasputina for the Bite of Winter buff.

If bought separately,

Rasputina is $10.50 (alternate version)

The Ice Gamin blister (3 pack) is $15.00

For a total of 25.50

The Boxed Set is $31.50, so $6 extra for the Ice Golem

Also, the Boxed Set version of Rasputina (I prefer this version) is only available in the Boxed Set.

Just some thoughts if you do want to go the Rasputina route.

If you do get Rasputina, additional suggested purchases are:

Essense of Power Totem (the Wendigo Totem is more thematic, but the Essense of Power has better rules)

Silent One (get 1 or 2)

Other purchases might include:

The Blessed of December, SnowStorm, and/or anything from the Arcanist faction that fits your fancy or desired playstyle.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Cats Laughing

[Gabbi]

Thanks again for replies!

I see how getting a second 10t crew would be great as I will be able both to lend it to a friend to play against or to merge some pieces to my own for larger games.

As aggressive I mean a force created more for action than reaction, mostly for close quarters. I don't have so much fun sniping my opponents from the distance.

On suggestions: totally love Mr Graves and Mr Tannen minis, the latter is really creepy! ^^

Also like Stitched Together. But I'll get the ladies first as everyone suggest them.

As for Rasputina, if the regular figure is the one on foot, I prefer her, too, over the one mid air, with the cape. Price wise, starter box seems a good choice.

I'll wait for my Dark Debts box, and a couple of games, prior to get more, but I'll keep this thread handy for future purchases.

Thank you!

Edit:

Another important question: will I need all the books, or just the main one?

Edited December 27, 2012 by Gabbi

[Boshea]

You just need one of the rule books to play. Either the pocket rules, or 1.5 will give you almost all the info you need. Books 2, 3, and 4 contain some newer rules, but all of book 2's rules are in the pocket and 1.5 I believe. As for books 3 and 4, any new rules are also printed on the cards with them. The main draw to pick up the big books is fluff and having information for models.

Just to chime in on your purchases. For Dark Debts I'd focus on grabbing the models from book 4 before grabbing older stuff. Models from other books will work fine with Lynch, but I'd prefer to grab the models that will work with Brilliance first. Stitched are fine models to own in general for Neverborn, but not sure how well they interact with Lynch. Beckoners and Graves are the first two sets I'd recomend picking up since they'll get the most use. Depleted and Tannen have their uses, but Beckoners are almost an auto-include and Graves is more general purpose.

The Raspy box is okay. Picking it up really depends on what Raspy model you want, and how much you like the Ice Golem. Regardless of how you start Raspy, Essence of Power, Ice Gamin, and 1-2 Silent Ones are a necessity.

For Close quarter crews you have a few options. If you want to stay in faction (Neverborn/10T) Lillith, Dreamer, Mei, and Misaki are all very beat face. Yan Lo can also go fairly melee heavy depending on the Ancestors you take.

[Kalkris]

Book 4 also has exclusive schemes for Ten Thunders masters, and the faction as a whole. You may wish to consider picking it up if only for that.

~Lil Kalki

[Gabbi]

Thank you to everyone.

Are you sure that Rasputina's box model is not sold by itself? I found a online reseller that seems to have it, labeled as Rasputina Ice Witch.

Anyway, I think I'll round up Lynch crew, before getting a second one.

[FearLord]

You can get the box Rasputina model separately, but they have recently announced that they will not be selling unique box models as individual blisters any more, which means any that you see around are existing stock and will not be replaced after they are sold.

If you want a melee centric crew when you say aggressive, I'd recommend either Misaki or Mei Feng's box if you want to stick with plastic, or the Victorias, Lady Justice or Lilith if you don't mind metals. McMourning, Marcus, Hoffman and the Dreamer might all potentially fit the bill, but probably not to the same degree as the others listed...

[Gabbi]

Well, I could get Mei Feng box at last, as I can lend it or grab Railworkers for Lynch or Rasputina.

I'm also attracted by Collodi, this game is so damn full of amazingly twisted models... ^^

[Boshea]

Thank you to everyone.

Are you sure that Rasputina's box model is not sold by itself? I found a online reseller that seems to have it, labeled as Rasputina Ice Witch.

Anyway, I think I'll round up Lynch crew, before getting a second one.

You can find them on different sites, but I'm fairly certain the boxed master models are no longer being sold in separate blisters.

[Gabbi]

Another question: what are the "Avatar" versions of the crew masters? Kinda of "Epic" in Warmachine/Hordes? There are specific rules to play them?

Seamus' one is AWESOME! I want it!

[Cats Laughing]

Another question: what are the "Avatar" versions of the crew masters? Kinda of "Epic" in Warmachine/Hordes? There are specific rules to play them?

Seamus' one is AWESOME! I want it!

Avatars are in Book 3 (Twisting Fates/Twisted? Fates).

They are not Epics in the WarmaHordes style. Avatar's are a different version of the base Master that can come into play during a game. You need to meet certain criteria during a game (it's different for each master) and then you can spend AP to "manifest". Once you manifest in game, you replace the original master with their Avatar version. Each Avatar plays differently from the original base master they come from and can therefore be a mid-game change of pace or an "oh crap" button. Some are considered more powerful than their base master, some are considered less powerful that their base master and some are considered to just be different (no better no worse, just different).

Seamus is one of the Avatars that is typically considered better than the base master. He gets much better at punching stuff in melee and scaring them with Terror. However, he does lose his gun and his ability to summon Belles.

Just a quick note before you ask

None of the Ten Thunder's masters currently have Avatars, therefore Lynch does not have an Avatar version.

No Henchman (Kaeris, Molly, Lucius, Ophelia, Von Schill, or Collodi) currently has an Avatar version either.

I do not know Wyrd's future plans.

[Gabbi]

Thank you. so, Seamus will be my 3rd master... ^^

...and I suppose I'll have to get 3rd book, too...

is Rasputina's avatar worth playing?

[Cats Laughing]

Thank you. so, Seamus will be my 3rd master... ^^

...and I suppose I'll have to get 3rd book, too...

is Rasputina's avatar worth playing?

Raspy's Avatar completely changes her play style and she is typically considered weaker than her standard version. But that's hearsay as I haven't used her yet.

[Ozz]

Raspy just kills what she looks at at range, but in mele she will die to anything relatively easily, her avatar makes her much more survivable, and able to hit up close harder. But less damaging overall. Still has uses though. Basically her avatar is for when the game is starting to go wrong for her, so she adapts to the situation with her avatar.

She reacts with her manifestation rarely leads the way with it.

[Gabbi]

First stuff arrived! got Essence of Power, Silent One, Mr Graves. Still no Dark Debts or Rasputina. I've ordered stuff around various online stores as none had full catalog available. sure purchasing this game here in old Europe is quite a pain...

Anyway, I also had a deck and most important, Rulebook 1.5 in this order. I'm unable to stick reading one section, jumping between rules, background and miniatures stats, as I'd want to read all at once... ^.^;

Edited January 9, 2013 by Gabbi

[Gabbi]

Dark Debts arrived! Huzzah!

first imression: wow, some parts are REALLY tiny