GoodPhule Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Two odd questions came up in a game the other day that I am hoping people might be able to help out on. The first was on the initiative flip - if you flip a black joker can you still spend a soul stone to reflip or are you stuck with the joker? Secondly, there was a height three model behind a height two wall shooting over it. A height two model walks up into melee range which led to loads of questions: • Can models attack each other in melee through a wall? • Does the height of the models and the wall make a difference? • if you can attack does anyone have cover (can you be in cover if you are in combat?)? • if you can't attack, then can you both still shoot even if you are in melee range? We don't let these oddball things stop our game or our enjoyment but it would be great to know we are playing them correctly if people can help. Thanks Edited November 10, 2012 by GoodPhule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokaji Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 There are a few topics that have already discussed these questions, but I'll give you a quick rundown. 1) Yes, you can still reflip on a black joker initiative. 2) Think about it like this: Melee range is measured from base to base, and bases are considered to be columns the circumference of the models base and the height of the model. So if an H2 model has a melee range of 2, then that is considered to be their 'reach.' Thus, if they come into melee range of a model behind terrain and can draw LOS, they can hit it, and vice versa. 2a) Normally, not unless you can draw line of sight. Lilith is the only exception to this rule I can think of. 2b) Yes it does, see above. 2c) There is no cover in melee 2d) You can never shoot out of melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Agree with Tokaji on all but the last. 2d. I am pretty sure that if they don't have LOS to you, they can't stop you from using a ranged attack. Someone on the other side of a Ht 6 Wall, for instance, isn't threatening you with a melee strike and so couldn't stop you shooting, I'm pretty sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Agree with Tokaji on all but the last. 2d. I am pretty sure that if they don't have LOS to you, they can't stop you from using a ranged attack. Someone on the other side of a Ht 6 Wall, for instance, isn't threatening you with a melee strike and so couldn't stop you shooting, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, in this situation, you are actually not in melee. Technically it is called 'engaged'....to be engaged, you need to be in range and have LoS..........so in this case, you could shoot at another target in LoS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I would agree as long as the interveening terrain had the Blocking Trait, if it only had the Obscuring Trait then it would depend on a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I would agree as long as the interveening terrain had the Blocking Trait, if it only had the Obscuring Trait then it would depend on a few things. To what do you refer? If it is the thing with the Ht 6 wall, then it makes no difference whether it is Blocking or Obscuring. You can't see completely through Obscuring terrain if your on 2 sides of it, so LoS is still blocked....you are not engaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodPhule Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thanks all that's really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 To what do you refer? If it is the thing with the Ht 6 wall, then it makes no difference whether it is Blocking or Obscuring. You can't see completely through Obscuring terrain if your on 2 sides of it, so LoS is still blocked....you are not engaged. Should have been a bit clearer in that. If the wall has the Blocking trait then it will definately block LOS however if it only had the Obscruing trait (say a Ht 6 hedgerow) then it will depend on the LOS. You wont be able to draw LOS completely thru the hedgerow if you are on oppositie sides of it and both model's bases aren't touching it (so wouldn't be engaged in melee and Ranged strikes would be fine), if however both model's bases were touching the Ht 6 Obscuring terrain (and it wasn't more than 3" thick) they could draw LOS and be engaged in melee (if the ranges allowed). If both bases are touching the Obscuring terrain's base then they could be considered within the Obscuring Terrain (giving the definition for Within on page 13 of the 1.5 edition Maliafux book). Is it an argument that you are likely to hear in a friendly environment probably not, however in a competitive field... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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