Painkillers and Reckless

[egoon]

Let's say you have a Nurse and McTavish in the same crew. McTavish has been reduced to 1 Wd. If the nurse uses Massive dose, and gives him painkillers (Target cannot be killed. Sacrifice target at the end of its next activation), can McT then use Reckless?

Does the effect mean that he cannot lose the last wound, or does it mean that he doesn't die from it?

If he can use Reckless, and is reduced to 0 wounds, what happens if he uses Shrug Off on the painkillers? He won't be sacrificed, but does he die?

[Adran]

Don't have the rules manual to hand, so its supposition and without the exact wording.

I think the relevent passage says something about not being able to delibratly lose wounds to zero (although it might spending wounds to kill oneself). You certainly couldn't reckless if you were on 0 wounds.

At the resolution of the Shrug off action, the game checks state, and McTavish can be killed and is at 0 wounds. He will gain "killed".

Likewise if the effect gets dispelled, or otherwise removed he will die before anyone can act.

[Therril_83]

The FAQ says

Q: If the model cannot be killed, but is reduced to 0 Wd what happens?

A: If the model cannot be killed it is reduced to 0 Wd but you do not check for death conditions.

and if you check the Clarification and Erratas-section, under damage resolution, section 5b states:

Then, if the model has been reduced to 0 Wounds check to see if it is Killed.

This leads me to believe that the model continues to live as normal until he is hit by anything again, in which instance even if the damage inflicted is 0, he will pass through step 5 and check for death and die (unless it's the Black Joker on damage or a soulstone is used to prevent, because in both cases the resolution explicitly states you skip over to step 6 and you don't check for death).

what do you guys think, is this correct? "or am I out riding a bicycle", as the swedish saying goes..

edit: as for reckless, isn't there some rule in the book that says a model cannot reduce itself to 0 wounds voluntarily? Rather than saying it can't kill itself, I mean..

I'll have to have a look at home tonight I think.

Edited October 30, 2012 by DaemonChild

[Omenbringer]

Relevant abilities

(+1) Reckless: This model may suffer 1Wd to receive Fast.

Painkillers: Target cannot be killed. Sacrifice target at

the end of its next activation.

and finally from the Rules Manual page 44 of the Rules Manual

A model cannot use a talent or cast a spell that requires it to inflict a Wd on itself if it would reduce its own Wounds to 0.

So in the event a target of Painkillers was hovering at death's door with only 1 Wd left it could not use Reckless as it would reduce its Wounds to 0. Obviously a model with more than 1 Wd would be free to use Reckless while under the effects of Painkillers since it wouldn't reduce it to 0 Wounds.

Of note though (also from the cited Rules Manual page) is that

A model can use a Talent or cast a spell that inflicts Dg on itself as long as it is not targeting itself with an attack spell.

This applies to things like Papa Loco's spell.

[egoon]

Q: If the model cannot be killed, but is reduced to 0 Wd what happens?

A: If the model cannot be killed it is reduced to 0 Wd but you do not check for death conditions.

A model cannot use a talent or cast a spell that requires it to inflict a Wd on itself if it would reduce its own Wounds to 0.

So this would put a stop to it then I think. Even though it wouldn't kill him, he can't reduce himself to 0 Wd using Reckless.

Thanks for the input guys!