Anyone else struggle against the Viktorias?

[Keron]

Or is it just me?

I've only ever managed to beat them once and that was solely down to luck, winning initiative on a crucial turn which allowed McMourning to kill them before they killed him. The rest of the time I struggle to even give them a close game never mind win.

Any advice would be welcome, although I don't have Kirai (or any of her spirits for that matter) or any non-Resser models (so no suggesting I use Von Schill or Jack Daw).

[Gruesome]

If you mean Viks+VonSchill+Librarian+Supporting cast then I have no advice that has worked for me...

[GAH]

Once you kill one Victoria, the other loses a lot of her usefulness. At 7 wounds, they are fairly fragile once you force them to get rid of their soulstones, so focus on killing one of them (preferrably the one with two swords).

[Toonook]

With Kirai no problems, with Doug it's a bit more tricky. Dead rider is great for pulling them out of position and jumping on them with Doug. Just make sure you don't give them chances to whirlwind. They're usually very easy to out activate, the usual first turn of killing a canine and chihuahua to have the BP in reserve for a rogue necromancy bomb can be game breaking.

[Keron]

If you mean Viks+VonSchill+Librarian+Supporting cast then I have no advice that has worked for me...

It's usually Viks+Avatar+Von Schill+Student of Conflict+8ss cache that makes up the core of their crew (then usually Ronin and other Mercs to pad out the numbers)

Once you kill one Victoria, the other loses a lot of her usefulness. At 7 wounds, they are fairly fragile once you force them to get rid of their soulstones, so focus on killing one of them (preferrably the one with two swords).

My local Guild Henchman suggested playing aggressively against them and it is a tactic I haven't tried yet, but their Avatar makes me very wary of directly engaging them.

With Kirai no problems, with Doug it's a bit more tricky. Dead rider is great for pulling them out of position and jumping on them with Doug. Just make sure you don't give them chances to whirlwind. They're usually very easy to out activate, the usual first turn of killing a canine and chihuahua to have the BP in reserve for a rogue necromancy bomb can be game breaking.

I've recently stopped taking the Dead Rider against them as Von Schill can neutralise him too easily.

I have found that being able to out-activate them is one of my few advantages and the Rogue Necromancy bomb is worth a go (I'm not sure if I've tried it before).

[EnternalVoid]

If you want to take the Dead Rider I really think you need to have a Grave Spirit, it will go a long way to making it so that it does not get taken out to easy. Suddenly Von Shill is only doing 1-2 damage on a weak hit rather than 3-4. Even a Severe is more managable.

That said don't expect to drag away a Vik unless they are out of Soulstones or your opponent burned their hand. Having a Vik dragged away by the Dead Rider is a death sentence if they have already activated so odds are they will use a Soulstone and a good card to prevent it.

In my opinion the best way to deal with the Vik+Von Shill+8 ss cashe is to drain that cashe as fast as possible. It is what makes Whirlwind storms and unkillable Von Shill possible. You force him to burn stones on defense and that is more you are taking from his ability to kill. The best way to do this in my opinion is to attack the weak spot in this, oddly enough Von Shill. Von Shill has an average defense of 5, meaning alot of your models can hit him or force him to burn cards. Many times they will use cards till and save the stones when Von Shill is being attacked meaning it is possible to drain his wounds and force him to start using his slow to die. McMourning is very good at taking a large chunk out of Von Shill's life, more so if you use the first two turns to build a decent hand for the assault. If you can throw something like a pair of Night Terrors to tie up the Viks or something worthwhile enough for them to slaughter it will give you time to work on Von Shill. Odds are at first he will start using Soulstones to keep Von Shill alive, but if you keep laying it on him it becomes a trap. If he keeps saving Von Shill, he will likely burn stones faster then you and leave himself bone dry, giving McMourning the advantage. If he realizes the trap he has to let Von Shill go down to save his stones for his offense.

This is not the easiest trip, as Von Shill is an agile bugger and it relies on you being able to just throw attack after attack at him. But with their list they will not have a lot of activations, with 20 stones for just Von Shill, the Student, and the cashe. It means in a 30ss game they will likely only have two more models and in 35ss three more. This means just taking a pair of dogs, McMourning, two night terrors and a totem for 11-12 stones means you can out activate him.

[GAH]

If you drag one Victoria away, and they haven't already activated, they can just use Sisters In Spirit to push them back together. The Avatar can only form if both Victorias are still in the game.

[LordZombie]

The Viks are tough. If you try and gang up on them, the sword will just blender anything you bring. The only thing I have used well against the Vik was with Nicodem and punk zombies and Bete. Bete is a good choice also as the Viks will kill something and she can pop out and flurry back on them. Otherwise, good luck.

[Gollum528]

There's no reason you couldn't also bring Von Schill. At that point, I think it becomes a "who's going to run out of stones first" game, which you'll have the advantage with a 6ss cache. In addition to that, you'll care much less about keeping him alive than they will, thus giving you even more of an advantage.

[DarcXON]

As a Viks player I can tell you that you have a few tools at your disposal. Crooked Men, Belles, Drowned, Night Terrors and Punk Zombies. The Drowned bring the pain to anything that doesn't have Freikorps Armor. The Night Terrors chase me and hold me in place for the Doc to come up. Belles can put me in a dangerous position. Punk Zombies have the Cb and Slow to Die, which makes it hard for me to dodge even after I kill them,

Finally the Crooked Men have the best tools for the job. A well place Shafted can end movement Shenanigans, Their Melee attack can Paralyze in a pinch, and their Ranged Spell can blast onto Viks.

These things require some practice to get down, but are nonetheless doable.

[Pierowmaniac]

Viks and Von Schill is currently my most played against crew.....and I've lost every game

I did notice the last game I played, my opponent put a lot of effort in making sure mercenary 'Hamelin' went down quick as I was threatening his advance with 'pipers lure' and 'black death'.

[Guy in Suit]

Crooked men are my demise.

Drowned are annoying, but luckily most people think they suck.

Avoid spirits - this is the rare match-up where Necropunks are a better choice than night terrors - as they can spread out.

Also, never lure a Viktoria before they activate - people do this all the time and the Vikkie player will just say 'Thanks for the free walk!'

[Boscotopia]

Crooked men are my demise.

Drowned are annoying, but luckily most people think they suck.

Avoid spirits - this is the rare match-up where Necropunks are a better choice than night terrors - as they can spread out.

Also, never lure a Viktoria before they activate - people do this all the time and the Vikkie player will just say 'Thanks for the free walk!'

Not sure I am following on the first three. The fourth makes sense.

What is so bad about Crooked and Drowned? Why NOT take Spirits?

[Tograth]

Crooked men generate a lot of blasts - the vikkies have no armour against these.

Drowned again are pretty nifty with their pulses etc.

you avoid spirits as the vikkies are one of the few masters who have magical weapons, meaning that they ignore spirit when inflicting damage.

[Guy in Suit]

You don't take spirits because they die absurdly fast. One swing can kill Datsue ba and then keep coming at you. A decent Whirlwind chain to kill all your night terrors. These things and more will come at you courtesy of the Viktorias.

Drowned throw out lots of easy wounds that add up very fast. Remember, Viks have the lowest wound count of any master except Dreamer and NO armor, hard to kill, etc.

Crooked men prevent where I can safely go - you can't soulstone to resist the paralyzed, and even three damage is really bad when you only have 7 wounds.