Boshea Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Like my Guild thread, the term budget is used lightly here. I guess "efficient first purchases" would be a better choice, but doesn't sound as good. Decided to do one of these for each faction after seeing Morella's suggested starting purchases thread. This would be the macro version of it looking at the best way to enter a faction instead of just a single master. Since I'm not an expert on every faction and master contributions are greatly appreciated. The main guideline for this would be the same as my guild goals. What is the best roster that can be built out of three starter boxes and three blisters. Sometimes the three starters and blisters may not be enough so an alternative cap would be for the final cost to be around $150. Considering how there is basically 0 overlap in minions used by the outcast masters I may need to approach this a little different. First off Leveticus and Hamelin are ruled out for starter boxes due to both being very model intensive and complex masters. So that basically leaves us Outcasts in the flavors of Mercenaries and Gremlins. Due to there being no overlap in the minions other than McTavish its probably best to approach them as seperate factions. So if going the Mercenary route the obvious purchases are the Vik box, the Freikorp Box, Ronin, and a Convict Gunslinger. While the Viks don't have the most amazing box in the world Taelor and Johan are nice to run when Von Schill is leading a crew. After that adding Misaki, Sue, and the Ten Thunders will give you a very rounded Mercenary pool to work with. Beyond that most other models released that can be taken are more situational. So the final roster for Mercs would be -Viktorias -Von Schill -Taelor -Johan -Bishop -2 Freikorpmann -Freikorp Specialist -Freikorp Trapper -Freikorp Librarian -3 Ronin -Convict Gunslinger -3 Ten Thunder Brother -Sue -Misaki Total 146.75 If going the Gremlin route your boxes are Som'er and Ophelia. Since you'll be Ophelia box probably best to build for shooty Gremlins first since Ophelia plays better with them than pig lists. So to round out the Ophelia box a blister of Young Lacroix and Slop Haulers will due, with Som'er rounding out with a blister of Gremlins, piglets, hog whisperer and 2 blisters of Mosquitos. So for a final roster we have. -Som'er Teeth Jones -Ophelia -Francois -Rami -Pere Ravage -Raphael -War Pig -6x Gremlins -3xYoung Lacroix -2xMosquito -2xSlop Hauler -4xPiglets -Hog Whisperer Total 153.25 Input would be appreciated. Edit-Updated Gremlin roster as per suggestions Edited July 20, 2012 by Boshea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Som'er is also hard for a starting player. I would suggest either Von Schill box plus Ronin and Hamelin Rat-Catcher, or Ophelia box plus Young LaCroix and Slop Hauler and Bayou Gremlins blister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morella Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Thanks for taking this up - I totally put it on the back burner and forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted July 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Som'er is also hard for a starting player. I would suggest either Von Schill box plus Ronin and Hamelin Rat-Catcher, or Ophelia box plus Young LaCroix and Slop Hauler and Bayou Gremlins blister. Fully aware that Som'er is hard, but if going with the LaCroix's to start its a natural expansion. The benifit of the Gremlin roster is that you have Ophelia to get the basics down with, and Som'er to expand with. Also didn't want to say that Mercs was the only budget flavor for outcasts. They are definitely the most budget friendly since the models can be used in almost any master in the game, but shooty gremlins is a close second. Shooty gremlins are also far simpler to play than pig gremlins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Som'er is also hard for a starting player. I would suggest either Von Schill box plus Ronin and Hamelin Rat-Catcher, or Ophelia box plus Young LaCroix and Slop Hauler and Bayou Gremlins blister. Definately don't agree with that, Som'er isn't really as difficult to learn as many of the other Masters/ crews. His biggest problems are figuring out the turn sequence and wading through his options. I do agree though that the best (read as least expensive) crews to start with are VonSchill, Ophelia, and then the Viktoria's (laid out in order of precedence). VonSchill is pretty much complete right out of the box and additionally pretty competitive. Ophelia is also pretty good but will want a lot of other models to really push the advantage (Young Lacroix Blister, Bayou Gremlin blister, Slop hauler, and of course the Pigapult). Crew tactics are very easy to learn though. The Viktoria's are a great crew but again you are going to want more models than are in the base box (at the least a Ronin Blister and a Student of Conflict). Fully aware that Som'er is hard, but if going with the LaCroix's to start its a natural expansion. The benifit of the Gremlin roster is that you have Ophelia to get the basics down with, and Som'er to expand with. Also didn't want to say that Mercs was the only budget flavor for outcasts. They are definitely the most budget friendly since the models can be used in almost any master in the game, but shooty gremlins is a close second. Shooty gremlins are also far simpler to play than pig gremlins. Ophelia without Som'er plays a lot differnt than Som'er with Ophelia (neither is difficult to learn but they are very different in application). I do agree that there is a benefit in that there is cross over between the two gremlin boxes, but not as much as you would think. Again though the most budget friendly is VonSchill who will only need one additional model to finish out a 30SS encounter (probably a Freikorps Trapper). Edited July 16, 2012 by Omenbringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted July 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'd say Taelor over Trapper. The box is pretty shooty, but it could use some melee oomph. Sure Freikorpsmann can flurry,but their knives are not anything to write home about. Also gets some magic damage into the crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 The problem I find with doing a 'budget' Somer list is that the Skeeters are one per pack and you ideally need four of them. And it doesn't help that his boxset isn't great. Swop the Warpig out for a few Piglets and you'd have a fine starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted July 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Like I said before "budget" is used lightly. I'll probably be opting for Som'er+Piglets+Gremlins instead of the starter since I already have a War Cock to use as a War Pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 The problem I find with doing a 'budget' Somer list is that the Skeeters are one per pack and you ideally need four of them. And it doesn't help that his boxset isn't great. Swop the Warpig out for a few Piglets and you'd have a fine starter. I have been working with only 2 Skeeters in the crew for a very long time (though I do own four). The only time you really need four is when running the Alpha Stank. I also wouldn't quite say that his crew box is crap, just incomplete (caused by the low SS cost of the Bayou Gremlins vice the much higher production cost of said models). All he really needs to add to the box is a Hog Whisperer Blister, 2 Skeeter Blisters, and a blister of Piglets. This will provide a pool of: Som'er Teeth Jones Giant Mosquitos [2ss] Giant Mosquitos [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Hog Whisperer [5ss] Warpig [8ss] Piglet [3ss] Piglet [3ss] Piglet [3ss] Piglet [3ss] to hire from. With that you can build a pretty good Pig Boomerang list (and though the Warpig isn't the greatest model in the game he does a lot better in a Pig Boomerang list, because he can block LOS to less desirable targets and deliver the Coup De Grace after the piglets have softened a tough model up). This is what I would consider a solid base Som'er Teeth Jones build (and a minimum). After that it is a simple matter to add another Blister of Bayou Gremlins and a Slop Hauler to have a good gunline. Or two more Skeeter blisters for the Alpha Stank. Or a Gremlin Taxidermist and blister of Stuffed Piglets for the Bacon Bombing assassination run. ---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ---------- Like I said before "budget" is used lightly. I'll probably be opting for Som'er+Piglets+Gremlins instead of the starter since I already have a War Cock to use as a War Pig. Dont discount the utility of having 2 Warpigs (or War Rooster and War Pig). Each of those 50mm heavy hitters can provide 9 SS worth of "free" Stuffed Piglets if the cards are cooperating. One of my new favorite lists is Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Som'er Teeth Jones -- 3 Pool 2 Giant Mosquitos [4ss] Warpig [8ss]Warpig [8ss]Gremlin Taxidermist [6ss]Bayou Gremlin [2ss]Bayou Gremlin [2ss]Bayou Gremlin [2ss] It allows Som'er to build the Gunline and Alpha Swarm while providing the Taxidermist plenty of corpse counters for summoning stuffed piglets (and setting up the minefield or Bacon Bombing assassination run) and can still seriously effect your opponent as he moves up field (though you wont be able to makem fly). Not the most competitive list but definately one with a lot of options and shenanigans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted July 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 So made some changes to gremlin roster as per advice from the gremlin players. Dropped 2 of the Mosquitos to add in a Hog Whisperer and Piglet blister with only a minor change in cost. Also after reading through advice in every thread except Guild, I'm thinking its probably best to stop designing this for new players, since morella's budget crews does a better job of introducing a player to the game. So with that in mind there is at least one other master in Outcasts I can design under $150, which is Hamelin. Pullmyfinger's starting purchases for hamelin of 3xRat blisters, Stolen blister, Rat Catchers, and Wretch totals out to roughly $120 which leaves $30 to play with. The thematic choice would probably be to just grab his avatar and call it a day, but he does have a few choices outside of Outcasts that may work. If somebody can figure out how to build a functional levi roster under $150, I'll be impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Hamelin is going to depend also on how you want to run him, though I do like his vanilla list quite a bit. Another you might want to search for is the Hamelin Grow lists, which were also fairly competitive from what I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted December 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 So bit of bump to get some discussion going. Now that we've had some time with Book 4 we're getting a better idea of how the new piece will fit into existing crews. I can't really update any lists though until prices are out, but we can at least speculate how starting purchases will change. The Merc lists are pretty straight forward changes. Vanessa is a crazy support piece that opens up a ton of variety to Vik lists, and may give Johan some new life being able to take his buddy Joss now. The Strongarm is another obvious addition since he does just about everything you need him to do in a Freikorp list, or just as a big bruiser. For Gremlins, I still don't know the crews well enough to make a fair call on what to make of the new pieces. From what I've gathered everybody loves Gracie, but may not be a starting purchase. Burt is also an interesting ranged piece for Merc crews. For Hamelin the only big question I'm asking now is whether or not the extra pack of Stolen is needed when starting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Hamelin is going to depend also on how you want to run him, though I do like his vanilla list quite a bit. Another you might want to search for is the Hamelin Grow lists, which were also fairly competitive from what I recall. Grow lists will no longer work due to "they're just rats". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Grow lists will no longer work due to "they're just rats". Thankfully this has been fixed in the new Hamelin Errata (5 months ago when I wrote that it did though ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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