Ronin always for hire

[baskinders]

Ronin Always for Hire ability allows a model to "spend 1AP and 5ss during the closing phase to summon a Ronin"

How can a model spend 1AP in the closing phase? Is the intention that the model spend the 1AP and 5ss in their activation to summon a Ronin in the closing phase? Or does this rule mean a model may "save" an AP from their activation until the closing phase to summon a Ronin.

And if it was intended that you pay the costs in your activation but place the Ronin in the closing phase, what happens if the summoning model is killed after they've paid the summoning cost but before the close phase (ie. is the ronin not placed, placed within 6" of where the model was killed...?)

Cheers!

[Mydnight]

I wonder if the model spends the 1 AP during their activation, and then if they are still around (since they need to have Use Soulstones) during the closing phase then they spend the 5 stones. Just a thought.

[Felstorm]

I'm one of Baskinders reguLar gaming opponents and we were discussing Always for Hire today. We agreed that probably no one use this ability anyway. The negatives for bringing a Ronin into play in this way, far outweigh the positives of simply hiring one into your crew. We agreed that the ability is probably meant to make a model with the use soulstones ability spend 1 AP and 5ss in the activation phase and then summon a Ronin in the Closing Phase. I doubt I'll ever use it.

Summon is already balanced by the summoned model gaining Slow. Only having the summoned show up in the Closing Phase means you lose the element of surprise.

I suggest dropping the "during the closing phase" from the ability. Then Always for Hire would be totally ninja!

... But maybe a little OP?

I'll admit that I'm a little biased as I'll be taking my 5 Ronin against his Marcus crew tomorrow *grin*

[baskinders]

Yeah I guess for now we'll play as though "closing phase" was not included in the rule and just do the summon during the summoning model's activation, given if you want to take that option it costs you 1AP from your leader, 1AP from the Ronin and effectively reduces your in game max soulstone pool by 5 already, which is pretty expensive! Even though Ronin do kick big @rse

[Headcase2]

If that Ronin appears on an objective (in the closing phase of the last turn, for instance) and nets you 4 VP than I think it's 5 SS well spent. Granted, not many masters will have 5 stones to spare by then, but some (like Colette) often end a game with a couple of spare stones (or just make a couple extra to summon that ronin).

Anyway, from a rules PoV it was ruled a very long time ago that you spend the AP and the stones when your model activates, and if it's still in play in the closing phase you get your brand-new ronin, placed completely within 6" of the summoning model. If the summoner is not in play at that time though, you're out of luck: no ronin, and no refunds!

[Barnaberible]

I guess you pay in advance and when they receive the telegram and get to the battlefield to find out the contractors dead they think, meh im off back home to see if there's anything good on the telly

[Sezar]

Thinking about it, I guess it would be cool to Obey one enemy Ronin with Zoraida, who does not look to make much use of her Soulstones, to get a brand new Ronin off her enemy (she still has to pay the 5ss, of course).

[TranquilitiesEnd]

I believe there are rules when controlling enemy models that you can't have them sacrifice or kill themselves or summon models.

[whitefire]

I find it somewhat viable if say theres a soulstone vein in play...

[Hateful Darkblack]

Either side can summon the Ronin. Most often, the only Master who can afford to do that kind of thing is Colette.

[egoon]

On the v2 card it says:

Always for Hire: When this model is in play, a model with the Use Soulstones ability may spend 1AP and discard 5 soulstones during its activation. During the End Closing Phase, summon one Ronin. If the model whe used this ability dies before the Ronin is summoned, place the Ronin in this model's controller's deployment zone.

I think that should answer most of your questions, yes?

[Truefaith]

To win the game I would drain souls into a Ronin on turn 5 or later...

Also is that a v2 card or do Ronin have a v3 card? The downloadable v2 card reads differently then your post, egoon.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Truefaith

[egoon]

It's a v2 card, but it is worded differently than the pdf.

[baskinders]

Hmm, that's weird, why would it not be either on the pdf of the Outcast V2 cards or the Model clarifications page? Makes sense as a rule with placing in the deployment zone if the "summoner" is dead/buried/sacrificed though.

If this is the case and you place the Ronin in the closing phase, do they suffer from Slow like other summoned models usually do? I only ask because the rulebook says "A Summoned model may activate during the turn it was summoned, but receives Slow...". So I'm guessing Ronin, given they don't activate on the turn they're summoned, don't receive slow?!?

[egoon]

So I'm guessing Ronin, given they don't activate on the turn they're summoned, don't receive slow?!?

That's how I read it.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

I posted a request for an update of the Model Clarification page.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?31824-New-Rules-FAQ-Errata-Website-Discussion-Thread&p=415042&viewfull=1#post415042

[baskinders]

Sweet egoon, cheers mate!

[baskinders]

Ha, so turns out Felstorm had the newer V2 cards with that wording all along, but we tend to use the iPads and the PDF V2 cards for ease of reading bigger font usually so we'd never bothered to look .

We've got another clarification for them that came up. The Mobile ability means they ignore severe terrain when Charging, and (2) Run Through allows them to "Push this model up to its Cg". So does this count as "Charging" for the purposes of ignoring severe terrain?

Cheers!

[DeusInnomen]

No, it means you push the model up to its Cg speed. It's still a push and gains all the benefits of it.