FancyZergling Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Seeing as the league that I am running and participating in is starting a week from tomorrow I am going to go ahead and post of my exploits here! In the format I am running it is up to three lists that can be taken, 35 points, shared Strats. At the moment the lists I am running are looking as follows; Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Ophelia Lacroix -- 6 Pool Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Pigapult [4ss] Rami Lacroix [6ss] Slop Hauler [4ss] With this list I am looking at those moments when I absolutely have to do contain or slaughter. This also gives me the ability to break any Holdouts that are taken or to easily Stake a claim or Breakthrough. I have considered taking out Rami more Bayou Gremlins for Drain Soul/Gather Soul Stone/VP denial shenanigans. Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Som'er Teeth Jones -- 5 Pool + Som’er and Peaches, Avatars of Indulgence [2ss] 1 Giant Mosquito [2ss] Ophelia Lacroix [8ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Malifaux Rat [2ss] Pigapult [4ss] Slop Hauler [4ss] This is my "Oh I don't have to kill you/ I can pretend you don't exist?" list. Basic plan is to keep up the Grem factory and make it rain. With the skeeters and A Som'er to help out with any Will Power duels that may pop up, and skeeters to go and gas out things where needed, you know, making it rain! This is a list for anything but Escape and Survive, Slaughter,and Contain Power. Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Ophelia Lacroix -- 5 Pool Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Bayou Gremlin [2ss] Pigapult [4ss] Slop Hauler [4ss] Slop Hauler [4ss] or Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap Som'er Teeth Jones -- 8 Pool 4 Giant Mosquitos [8ss] Ophelia Lacroix [8ss] Francois Lacroix [5ss] Rami Lacroix [6ss] Now this last list may seem like I put it together with 0 thought but it actually took a lot of decision making to put together I still also really need to decide if I want to run this exactly. My reasoning for this list specifically is that none of my list can do escape and survive particularly well as the way I play them mean that I can fauder out anything I need to, but not in Escape and Survive. The Slops just try and keep everything alive, I use Ophelia+Pigapult to keep firing and chipping away at the opponent while I hope enough of everything survives to win, push comes to shove I just distance everything and fling as much as I can to the other side, though I could go the opposite way and bring "Expensive" gremlins and fling them to safety. Or Som'er max amount of Totems, LaCroixs, Pult, then fling em all and have Som'er book it when things get close, and hope the pult survives. I'll be practiceing tomorrow so we will see these lists in action then! Edited March 6, 2012 by FancyZergling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyZergling Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) SCHEME ANALYSIS One of the hardest thing for me is committing to and achieving schemes, so here I will do an in depth analysis of each scheme, and how my crews should approach them, if they are taken. ASSASINATE: I don't really see my crew taking this very often, but barring that let us look into when I would take this and how to go about taking out opposing masters. Generally I believe I would go about this like I would anything else I was force to kill and force them to use resources to counter the vast amount of fire coming from my Bayou, as well as using my pigapult to erode masters from afar. This is made even more easy with my slop hauler decreasing defenses. Guild: Perdita and Hoffman are going to be difficult to take down for different reasons, where as I am not too afraid of Lady J and Sonnia. Perdita is the epitome of what I hate when having to take out a model, high defense and as an added bonus, Faster 'n You. Not only is she a challenge to hit, and can kill the Gremlin that shot her. I could possibly take a slop hauler to lower her defense, but this is just as hard as trying to hit her with a bayou at a -4 deferential. Now, what I can do is use this to my advantage, I can force cards and maybe even ss out of my opponents control to prevent this, leaving the way wide open to swarm gremlins on to her. If all else fails I can try to get severe on boomstick strikes or moderates on pult strikes to get plumes and nickel and dime her down. Verdict; Too risky. Now with the Secret Construct Service and a Peacekeeper Hoffman is truly a pain to take down. My first reaction would be to bounce yummy yummy plumes off his tightly clustered constructs, but Hoffman just says no and I'm just force to reply with "Ok" combined with high mobility and assimilating certain abilities getting to him will be a pain, even with a pigapult. For the rest of the masters I am not too afraid, I think that I would be alright. They are slow and can be picked apart with out too much worry with the pigapult or swarmed. Resser: Kirai is really the only master that I feel it will be tough to take down. She really is just too quick to take out and can snipe models, just very difficult to kill. It would honestly just not be a good idea, but this isn't about why I shouldn't, this is "if I was forced to". Objective number one would be to take out Lost Love, removing that saftey net quickly would force her on to the back foot as if the player has not turned her to a spirit, looses that path and the ability to bring her back as a spirit.Then it's just plink her down as any other master, and hope I can weather the spirit drops. For the other three the only one I would be kind of worrying about is McM, that point it comes down to trying to out activate him and take him down as soon as he activates. The problem with any master in this faction is Bete, but that is for another section. As long as Seamus doesn't get close and Nico is taken out before to many corpses are on the field I don't really see any problems shooting them down with anything . Neverborn: I feel that this is the faction as a whole that I will struggle with and there masters a extremely powerful. There abundance of ss combined with great stats and maneuverability make them hard to pin down and can easily just choose not to engage or run my crew off the table. Killing the book one masters would all come down to gunning them down before them being able to do anything significant, maybe even swarming Zorida with waves of Bayous so she cannot fly away. Assasinate Chompy and the Dreamer is just ridiculous. If you choose Chompy you have to hope for a black joker on his last attack and open up on him while choosing the Dreamer comes down to pulting you bayous in perfect position to smash him, overall, very difficult. Not impossible. But daft for trying for sure. Arcanists: This is probably the easiest faction as a whole to assassinate, with Ramos and Rasputina have extremly low df which grems just eat up, they also can't hide from the might of the Pigapult. Marcus is actually someone I have only played once, though I don't forsee too many problems with him he will fall like the rest of them. Colette on the other hand ugh, just ugh. Use Soulstone and slow to die is just rughahahghaah. Now on the other hand I can use the threat of Assassination to try and manipulate soul stone use on other parts of the boards, or the other way around. With numbers I can attempt to dictate her movement and ss use. Outcast: Viks and Som'er arn't too hard. Just gun them down and move on. Viks have to get to you, weathering everything and don't have the high WDs, df, or Cache that other models have. Where as som'er may have a few ss to use, but still not too difficult to beat, though I can see this being a live action version of the Pigapult fluff. Or the person who could pult Ophelia and go commando. Henchman: Ehh, only real problem is Von Schill, highly mobile and slow to die make him a beast, but that is lest Soul Stones any where. Alright I promise the others won't be that long... probably. BODYGUARD: Now at first I have to admit, I thought this was an absolute terrible then I read Magick's UK masters thread, and I remembered a long forgotten ability, drain souls. Let's break things down by masters. Som'er: With Df 5 and ten wounds he does not seem like a tank, and with out a cache he has few ss to keep himself up. Now give him a cheap crew around him and you now have the ablility to drain soul, on top of that you are drawing two cards each time you do so. At this point you not only have a heap of Soulstones but you more than likely have a great hand as well as having a one action heal on top of being able to move 15" a turn if needed. Pretty nifty huh? Works in a pinch, and nice choice if they bring a list with a master that isn't too killy smashy. Opheila: This little firecracker quickly becomes a df 6 nuke that puts out quite a bit of damage, more manuvurable, then Som'er though not as resistance. Then again being a paired SS cannon no one really wants to come near now do they? TO BE CONTINUED! Edited March 6, 2012 by FancyZergling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just a point of clarity, as per a previous RM ruling if you choose assassinate vs a two model master, IE the Dreamer or the Vickies, you need to kill both of them to get the points. You can't choose just one of the pair and kill it, you need to kill both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Never underestimate the Young LaCroix. They may not be significant, but they provide such damage output. In Slaughter, I feel you are making a mistake. Taking Ophelia and Rami gives you the hit and run to get the one kill and auto win slaughter until they come to you. You are also throwing away a soulstone because you had 7 left over. If I took Som'er, with Ophelia and Rami; I can summon farm as many Bayou's as you in 2 turns, except I have access to card killing and unresisted wounds (except against you, because you are a gremlin player ;D) Vs you, I'd have a pig list with Ophelia and Rami in; because that way I can hit and kill your Bayou Gremlins easily with piglets, and return to behind cover. Forcing you to come to me, which means my rami + Ophelia have an easier time of sniping yours. Equally, in contain power, having Som'er available to remove enemy cards means your pigapulted Ophelia can do WAY more damage. List 2: Hog Whisperer is 5ss. If this list dropped the avatar and slop hauler, and grabbed Rami, it would be far stronger at Contain Power and Slaughter. Taking a Hog Whisperer only to support Avatar Som'er is 7ss spent on support +6ss lost from Ophelia's cache +8 soulstones on hiring Ophelia because you lead with Som'er. List 3: Trying to keep Bayou's alive with slop haulers, is hard. Doing 4 damage in one strike against bayous is not hard. Assassinate: In the way you are viewing this, you are expecting to get a lot of shots off on the master. This is a huge gamble given terrain and the defensive options available to most. If you have both Som'er and Ophelia, it is far easier; huge and reliable soulstone damage options. The pigapult has Cb4, however, and sensible players are not putting their master near their low df models on the advance, and you are relying on throwing Bayou's as you have no pigs to sacrifice to do damage with it. While I rarely, if ever, take this, it is strong vs Seamus, and worth taking if you have both Ophelia and Som'er, and the opponent needs to be anywhere mid field. Mosquitoes and Som'er spells will get this, combined with Ophelia's auto double damage soulstoned pairs. Other than risking your models on being thrown with pigapult, right now your only reliable damage output on masters when not with Som'er is Rami + Ophelia pull and shoot, as it lets you ignore most terrain. Bodyguard: Som'er is Df 6/Wp 6. Given how he tends to be surrounded by models so you can't place on top him, and in the deployment zone, not usually an issue. If you were to take piglets, you also have truffles to move him, not just his 15" move. Coupled with that his healing flips, ability to kill the hand of people, and unresisted blasts on df7/wp6 flight 10 mosquitoes; he is generally the stronger choice than Ophelia with her Wp4. He is, however, height 2, so you cannot model block without pigapult or McTavish. This is one of your most reliable schemes. So what I largely notice with your lists, is they are all trying for the same thing. When you have set lists, you want to have them focus on specific goals. With escape and survive you only have to be nearly mid field. One thing you should consider with escape and survive is that if you summon a bayou, the new one doesn't count for escape and survive unless you killed the previous one; making it fodder; let those ones do the risky things whilst you move the old ones up, healed. When I have set lists I have each take certain goals in mind; normally my last list would have Som'er in too, in a set list format, because card denial is too strong with Ophelia. But here is how I would core, with an option select for when I am having to be defensive/poor anti neverborn/hamelin list (very weak with this inception, but blind fixed lists screw us) and one more suited to your playstyle 1) All comer Som'er + Avatar Mosquito 3 Bayou 1 Hog Whisperer 1 Rat or any other 2 point model/piglet 4 Piglets 6 ss For things like escape and survive, you have access to: 4 mosquitoes with 10 inch movement, piglets with a net total movement available to them of 84" of movement available to them. You can just Som'er Bomb most opponents, and even though you can't fart on them, you can win vs gremlins just by setting piglets on them. You get the very most out of your Hog Whisperer, you can summon a piglet killing the rat to heal your mozzies, you can factory if you want, and mosquitoes auto give you card cycling when they arrive. 2) Option Select Som'er Mosquito 3 Bayou McTavish Pigapult Rami LaCroix 3ss Two large base Wp blocking models, mosquitoes to harass, Ophelia and Rami for strikes, support Som'er. You are free to use the drain souls option despite the horrific -1wp for your terrible wp models. I would normally run this without Rami but this isn't for me =D Som'er can summon piglets for the pult on the right cards depending what you are vs. 3) The other player is lame Ophelia 3 Young LaCroix 7 Bayou Gremlins Rami LaCroix Raphael LaCroix Slop Hauler 5ss And you get your shooty list with Raph added in for objective grabbing whilst you are at it. You might find this list familiar =3 Just checking, but you -are- aware the Pigapult can't attack without sacrificing a piglet, right? 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Dumb Luck Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Two quick points. Perdita should not be too hard to take out. Slop Haulers can reduce her DF8 down to Df4. The LaCroix have Feud, ripping her apart. Ophelia can break her easily. Pere using Whoops! negates her Df right away. So do the Skeeters. Talking of Skeeters, they are great at taking out Daydreams with Pull my Finger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 And amazing at removing the stolen. But yeah if you are reducing Perdita hates mozzies. Most importantly, your slop hauler can be moved up with Ophelia to do a (2) Slop Spray to 3" pulse everyone down to 4Df, unresisted. It lets you get the slop hauler into a 17" threat range for slop spray (even better if you have him doing it through a building. You could essentially have Ophelia companion Rami, walk up, Ooh! A Girl! slop hauler, make the slop hauler go next, have the slop hauler walk + spray (or spray + walk if perdita has been stupid) then have rami shoot at her with 7cb vs 4df. Generally you are already out activating anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyZergling Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for all the input! @Fetid; Thank you, I was not sure, and at the last LGS tournament this was played wrong. @Spiku, I can't believe that I didn't notice that before, I thought it was solely a stuffed pig for for the plume and +1damage. Little embarrassin' haha. This is why I posted. I don't have McTavish but a friend does so I will borrow him and try him out today while I'm practicing. I am also not too familiar with using pigs as with me starting Ophelia I always feel more comfortable with gunlines, but considering I was a complete and total Derpy bird when reading the Pigapult I'm going to use your lists. I primarily would use the pigapult to turn my games into Band of Brothers rather then a artillery piece, at the time It was just a bonus. @Dumb Luck, It would be easier done then I make it out to be I just have this terrible habit of assuming the worst and that everything is going to fail. Then again one of my regular opponents plays Neverborn so this is usually the case with all the negative flips he likes to send my way. With a two to four point differential in stats usually it makes me cringe, though with reading the card again and reading Spiku's second comment Ooh it's a girl give the AoE a 14 inch threat range. This makes this master much easier to deal with. Thank you both! I'll post results from my practice games tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Resser: Kirai is really the only master that I feel it will be tough to take down. She really is just too quick to take out and can snipe models, just very difficult to kill. It would honestly just not be a good idea, but this isn't about why I shouldn't, this is "if I was forced to". Objective number one would be to take out Lost Love, removing that saftey net quickly would force her on to the back foot as if the player has not turned her to a spirit, looses that path and the ability to bring her back as a spirit.Then it's just plink her down as any other master, and hope I can weather the spirit drops Easiest way to deal with Kirai is to focus on the Seishen near her and generate as many blasts as you can to get at her (and them). This makes the Kirai player have to make difficult decisions each time one of your models with blasts activates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 oops, must have edited out my comments re Kirai! I find pig lists are quite strong vs Kirai, as you have the ability to mosquito Pull My Finger at the seishin, and flying piglets that fail terrify/are away from the gremlins get 3 attacks that go all over the place, and it is quite easy to overwhelm spirit models with attrition. Do remember that you can just pigapult at your own models if you know it'll get kills. And anything in your crew can repair a pigapult, so if something is in combat with it that you can't hit with a bayou, you're free to just shoot the bloody pult and get blasts off only doing 1 damage to the pult ;3 or hope for severe with whoops~ Really you'll want to play a bit with everything the gremlins have, just so you know WHAT they have =3 Like all crews, the hardest part will be picking which things you take, and which things you cut each game, because you'll want to play with all sorts of toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyZergling Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yeah that's another thing I would do against Kirai! Game 1: LCB(T3tsuya) v List 2 in Shared Destroy Evidence I took Gather Soul stone and Stake a Claim, he took Body Guard and Kidnap. He won activation and grabbed the neutral evidence marker first activation, while I just flung gremlins to mine. After that he managed to get his and I almost prevented the last one from being grabbed, unfortunately I didn't get init. It basicly came down to I couldn't kill chompy or get my stake, it being surrounded just enough to where I couldnt fling a bayou on it last turn. I lost at -3. Second game was Deliver Message v Von Shill (Time Lapse) I should have taken the pult list but I needed a pig game and this was the last game for the night. So I went with the pig list, we ended up just calling it turn 4 to go to dinner. But I did mess up a lot of things even though piglets are awesome! I look forward to doing a full game with them. Overall I think I will just take the All Comers List for my Gremlin list and take two other masters, I feel like that lists gives me all I love with my gremlins and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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