Soooeeeyy!!!! (Or, new gremlin player! List and questions!)

[Cthulhurising]

So I've dished out pain with Lady Zorida (Yes, Lady. Proper manners and all that) and had some fun with the Dreamer and his crew of nightmares and with the advent of a new grow league in my area, I'm onto Gremlins! buying the crew is slow going, but its going. Figured I'd pass this around and get some critique from the more experenced gremlins out there (Ya know, bein' a young'in an all)

I do realize the whole debate with Som'er and Ophelia and that most don't even take Som'er until 35/40 SS, but as I don't have many models, I don't much have a choice! Plus, I prefer the pigs over the normal shooting crews. I know they make more sense in lower point games... but... I loves the little piggies.

So here we go!

25ss

Som'er

Mosquito x1 2pts

Bayou Gremlins x2 4pts

Hog Whisperer 5pts

Piglet x3 9pts

Cache 5

Models I own consist of

Som'er

1 Mosquito

1 Ophelia Lacroix

1 Hog Whisperer

4 Bayou Gremlins

4 Piglets

1 Gremlin Taxidermist

I know I need to get more mosquitos, and more of the Lacroix clan and I don't want to turn this into a "what do I buy?" cause I have the general Idea, its just lack of cash I want to get as much knowledge as to what to buy so I don't regret my choice.

I've heard McTavish is just a weaker version of Francois (I may be wrong, or getting him mixed up with another Lacroix, but) Is he that bad? Or would he work better in a pig heavy crew? I know he counts as a pig and all that so that would imply that he does, but if he's that much weaker wouldn't it be the smarter move to just keep Francois away from the whole pig mess and be better off?

I've seen the debate between the Whisperer and the slop haulers and honestly, the whisperer seems better for me as a general take most the time, unless theres not a lot of terrain which then the slop haulers better, is that a safe assumption?

and I get the feeling from som'ers card he's a support master, but my question is, How much? Like Nicodem on the sidelines or like Collodi who is up there, just behind minions?

Thanks for the time and help!

[Spiku]

There isn't really a debate on Som'er/Ophelia, that was a long time ago. You pick based on the strategy, and you also play who you want.

McTavish is nothing like Fracois, you are probably thinking of Rami. Basically he is a weaker one, and he is not that strong in a pig crew unless you require him for specific match ups (say wp heavy or beast users).

If you use pigs, you take the whisperer for flight control, it also lets you take Avatar Som'er easier.

Som'er can be played in a few ways, though I consider the best to be sitting at the back, summoning. I tend to Avatar with him due to his synergy with the hog whisperer and mosquitoes.

You absolutely need mosquitoes ;3 More Sooey!'s with 10 inch movement to cast in, and then later on can be converted into card killing/pull my finger damage.

You want around 6-7 piglets, as you get bigger games you take more, and Som'er can make more anyway.

You will want another pack of Bayou's, McTavish, Ophelia, Rami LaCroix and Raphael LaCroix and another pack of piglets. This gives you everything you need for summoning high, fighting neverborn, times you want Raphael's 20" movement for objective grabbing combined with pigs casting truffles, and the secnarios where you want som'er summoning and Ophelia pulling rami about to make surgical strikes/explode things with soulstones. A pigapult wouldn't hurt.

Sorry to turn it into the shopping list, but you change your build based on each game's strategies

[Cthulhurising]

Lol! I guess it goes to show when the last time I was looking around gremlins was... ;;

And yeah, my knowledge of the Lacroix crew isn't the best. I know what they all do, just not who does what. So he's probably the one I was meaning instead. So thanks for that. Kinda sad, i love the gator and his little story bit. But it does lighten the burden up a bit. Buying a 9 dollar model is a easier done then an 18.

I was planning on more mosquitos, Francois (love the model way more then I should, but I'll consider Raphael over him. I always have taken it as "do i want refined or raw?" kinda debate.) and a package of stuffed piglets to use with the Taxidermist. Thanks for the help!

[Spiku]

You may as well just pick up the Ophelia box some time if you like Francois; it saves you the cost of one model and lets you play about with them. I consider Francois the weakest of the crew, but he does have options. He can Dumb Luck the Supply Wagon, so he can actually reliably damage it unlike some of the others in the crew. Also if Ophelia gives him Rams on his pistol with a (0) action, Francois can take 1Wd to take another shot after hitting someone with his pistol, so he becomes a gatling gun of sorts

[Cthulhurising]

Thats true, I just have Ophelia already, and while wanting to keep things primarly pig based, i wanted her and at most, two other lacroix, prolly only one. ^^;; I can see where the whole crew is useful to have depending on what you're facing and get for strategies, but right now im ust lookin for a general crew as im limited. ^^;; I'll consider Rami or Raph over him.

[Spiku]

Basically:

Rami gives you a 16" shot cb7 potentially double damage gremlin, who combined with Ophelia can stay in cover, then be thrown out and fire 2 shots, or a focus shot, then escape with reckless, or fire a last shot if you are safe. With Rami you might consider a slop hauler, but Som'er can heal him up anyway if you are just summoning with him.

Raphael gives you potentially 20" of movement if you attack him down to 4wds, combined with hard to kill bulletproof and reckless being for free when you are on 4wds. If you add in pigs using truffles, and a mosquito Sooey!ing piglets, you can easily have Raph at the centre of the board without activating him.

Get Avatar Som'er ;D read my thread for why.

[Cthulhurising]

Lol, I'll probably end up with Mosquito, Raph, Mosquito, Pigs and then avatar with buying. Will go look at the avatar post shortly.

Also, I know the warpig is usually not considered worth its points, but the gremlin player here has had plenty of good luck with it. You ever run into that kinda situation?

[Omenbringer]

I would recommend dropping the SS cache down (Some'r really doesn't need them as much as other masters do). Gremlins are mainly about numbers (especially the Pig lists), keep the Bayou's though so at around turn 3-4 you can transition to either a gunline or Alpha stank.

I do disagree with Spiku (I know big surprise there) a bit on McTavish. He brings a lot of utility to the crew. His damage output is about the same as a Bayou Gremlin (but isn't subject to Whoops!), he provides assistance with movement for the entire crew via Guide (not just pigs like Never Happen) and can allow a pig to perform another swinedash without suffering Wds (from either Reckless or Stik'em in the Ass) or allow a Skeeter to cast another spell such as Pull my Finger during a turn. The key is to use him upfield (as opposed to hiding him in the back field trying to snipe with him) and think of him as a Forward Air Traffic Controller for the Pig Squadron (Skeeters deliver to him and return them home, McTavish directs the strikes). He is like a variation of the Hog Whisperer, he trades some support for some combat power.

[Greenman]

My 2 cents... if it's even worth that, lol.

Starting out with Som'er the hardest thing for me was having enough of all the models that can be produced in game. The list get's long fast. Even at low point games you want a fairly large... (Shall I call it "side board"?)... available. Unless your group let's you use proxies, No fig, can't do.

He can produce 2 bayou gremlins a turn fairly reliably, if that's how you choose to spend your 1 actions. These can be then turned into more piglets. Little harder card wise. But not all that bad. Then you have the mosquitoes that reproduce in game up to 4. They are pretty much to good in game to pass up. Not to mention your taxidermist turning your pigs and any corpse counters he can get his grubby mitts on into stuffed pigs.

If you are trying prioritize your purchases I would suggest taking this into account. I don't mind loosing as I really only play casually at this point. But I try my best to win. If at the end of the game I am wondering if I could of pulled off a win if I only had the models to summon, I feel... well, almost cheated.

I would advise at least 1 more pack of bayou's. Very likely 1 more pack of piglets. Every post about "what do I need" I've read on Som'er prioritizes all four mosquitoes at the top of the list. Though I can empathize the hesitation to pick them over other awesome looking gremlin mini's when money is an issue. Small blessing on the stuffed piglets... 2 blisters is all you will ever need, as they detonate if you summon a, 6th? If I recall.

As far as the LaCroix go, I love them all, and as their soul stone cost is a touch more heavy than a lot of Som'ers boys, they fill out a list nicely when trying to buy less. It's a shame you already have Ophilia realy, as buying the box set saves a few bucks per fig. Maybe try to find a player to trade the extra out? If no other gremlin player, maybe a Hamlin player trying to amass a Gremlin crew would give up a rat or 2 for the "heal yer sketters" shinanigans. Though not sure if that would be worth it.

Hope that helps you avoid "buyers remorse" as you amass your horde.

[Spiku]

I do disagree with Omenbringer; McTavish's utility is severely limited; it adds a second mask suited (7+) support requirement in a risky position on the field due to the 8" range of his Obey, especially if you want to get something other than a Sooey! off. He has no innate survivale past the fact his base is large enough to ensure he is likely in cover, no heal option outside of Som'er using actions (god no), and takes Wds to himself for the fast. His damage output of 2/3/4 does not match up to your other options for 6ss. He is a 5ss model with so many extras that you have to pay 6ss~

What he does have going for him is protecting models from Swinedash given his size and height; a way to move a mosquito after it has sooey!'d up field to ensure all your Swinedash's hit the right target. Equally, he makes for a juicy target to give your mozzies more fun times, and makes for some bait for you to utilise on with a 3" radius melee blocker after he activates as well. You can also deploy your team in severe terrain if you have to, activate the 0 Guide to give your crew scout, and get to your job depending on the strat/scheme/terrain.

There are places where he is good, which is why I said to get him. But he's no Hog Whisperer, he's no Rami, he certainly ain't a slop hauler and he sadly cannot use his Wrangle Critter to obey Avatar Som'er.

Play him and make your own decisions. I find that without the specific match ups where I need him, you will do better taking the specialists for roles required, or taking 2 more pigs if you were considering tavish ;D

Re: having Ophelia already, find a Zoraida player. Zoraida players often take Rami and Ophelia as options due to them providing a nice obey long range shooty, and someone to spend their soulstones. Trade them Ophelia for something you need, then grab the LaCroix set ;D

Edited March 3, 2012 by Spiku

[Cthulhurising]

Thanks for the tips! One more really dumb question, but then I should have a fairly basic understanding of the gremlins.

The swinedash and Pigcharge, do I need to go in straight lines? I know I have to go straight towards the initial target, but after that, can I curve? So if I start swinedashing while in base contact with an enemy, can I go past him and around the terrain?

I picked up another skeeter instead of Rami and/or Raph, I feel like if I get to much more of the Lacroix i'm stepping away from my original pig theme. ;; I'll prolly get another skeeter with the stuffed piglets next and then start expanding into models to suit different schemes and strategies. And I got Ophelia as a gift, so I can't say a whole lot about. I figure the time it'll take for me to get the full crew will offset saving a few bucks. I don't really like Pere, and I'm limiting myself a bit to just a few lacroix for now. I imagine Pere and the Pigapult will be the last two things I purchase.

And ironically enough Spiku, I'm the only Zorida player in the area I know of. Lol.. so...

[Spiku]

Pigcharge can be moved in any direction at all; you can go around corners and come back, and if you're flying you're free to do pretty much anything you want with 10" of movement, with an interrupted strike. If you eat your fill however, you'll have to stop where you are as the interrupt action has just en

[Charmant]

You will want the pigapult tho, it's amazing for strategies based on placing of models and that bombing can be of situational use (so far I've only used it for shooting gremlins upfield though).

Also, remember that the push from Sooey! only requires a move towards - not directly towards - so you can push your lovely little piggies 10" however you want, as long as they never move away from the skeeter/somer/whisperer/hauler during the movement great way to get precision on the swine dashes

I'm having a harder time using the taxidermist, unless you wanna sac piglets he's quite card dependant and for pulses and aoe damage we already have a bunch of that stuff as gremlin players. I've used him some times in 35pt games and he's made a pig or two blow up in my opponents face, but most of the time I think those ss could be better spent on something else. He is probably our coolest model though.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Charmant

[Cthulhurising]

Lol, Yeah.. the pigapult so low on my list of what to buy is strictly from a cost stand point, Heck, for 4 points with hardness 5, I'd take it vs some heavy shooting crews for a mobile cover

But as is, I want Som'er And Peaches moreso, and they're both the sameish cost. So...

And I figured as much with Sooey, Its a fantastic spell, I honestly don't know what I'd take as the "best" spell. They're all so good! Heck, I managed a 8-0 victory of pandora cause of Pull My Finger, but then the previous game I managed to almost win against Lilith (3-5 vp) because of Sooey keeping my pigs spread out on the bored and still attacking, if I hadn't of messed up my activation I woulda gotten a tie (Reconniter vs lilith, Dear god that sucks to keep things alive), then my first game with gremlins, A gremlins luck and pull my finger kept me going... they're all so good.

I've decided I'm going to work on destroying all things "op" with gremlins and see how that works.

One thing that did come up I would like just a base clarification, the pigcharge, would that let me charge 2 inches to someone, then 8 inches straight back? Thats correct? (This would be without stampeding) And then Swinedash I have to go in straight lines?

[Spiku]

You are correct on how the piggles work