Learning Malifaux, Step by step - STEP 1

[super_bruno]

A few weeks ago, I posted a review on boardgamegeek

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/750908/not-for-the-casual-gamer

which stated that Malifaux was really too complex for me and that I would rather try to translate the Malifaux universe and characters to the Song of Blades and Heroes system.

I got to try Song of Malifaux this weekend and I must say it was a really big disappointment. The game was sooooo bland. It felt sooo limited. I put a lot of work into this project and was really excited to try it... but it was boring.

But I'm not ready to give up on Malifaux yet. I've invested time and money in this game (5 crews, painted 2 of those, built some worldworks buildings, put them in the garbage and bought 2 box of terraclips instead, bought the 2 first books and the rules manual) and I'm pretty sure I could actually enjoy it when I will master the rules.

So I've decided to follow the advice that I received in answer to my review and will try to learn the game Step-by-step. I just wish that Wyrd would release a quickstart guide or something to help newbies like me to learn the game.

Here is the content I will include in the first step and ignore everything else. (I must say I kept in my mind every concept that my girlfriend is not familiar with, for example Character Stats, since she never played and RPG before). Hope to try it soon.

Game setup:

- Terrain and crew preselected (starter box)

- Standard deployment

- No schemes

- 1 strategy: Either Treasure Hunt, Slaughter, Claim Jump or Destroy the evidence

Turn structure:

- Discard phase

- Draw phase

- Initiative phase

- Activation phase

- Shuffle phase

Card Mechanic:

- Red and black Joker.

- Card value

- Ignore card suit

- Twisting fate

- Cheating fate

- No soulstone use

- Simple Duel

- Opposed Duel

Characters Cards:

- Walk

- Defence

- Wounds

- Weapon type

- Weapon range

- Weapon combat rating

- Weapon damage

Line of sight:

- Either Full LoS or Blocked

Actions:

- Walk

- Strike

- Interact

- Pass

Melee/Ranged Combat:

- Choosing a target (pre-measuring allowed)

- Normal Combat duel with damage modifier and damage flip, no trigger and no soulstones

Edited February 16, 2012 by super_bruno

[Dustcrusher]

I've been clamoring for a starter set for a while now that includes quick start rules and/or a learning guide that gradually adds more rules in subsequent scenarios. Shameless plug for my blog post here:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/entry.php?15-The-worst-Malifaux-player

Since you are newer to wargaming than I am, I'd love your opinion on it.

[Spiku]

I had a very lengthy response posted for you, but crashed, so I'll have to surmise:

1) Simplifying Malifaux breaks it; game is built so you can take schemes to balance out strategies, models' costs are adjusted based on how often/likely skills are and how they combo. Combos are the staple of the game.

2) Best way to learn is like with D&D: play with someone who is already experienced.

3) Malifaux is a lot harder than many many wargames due to complex combos, the game not being about just killing your opponent, and having to control your cards/their use.

There really does exist the chance the game is not for you, but I absolutely commend your determination to make it work! Ask on the forums, or find a local henchman, or a local games store, and get some games in there! I will point a friend of mine to PM you; Malifaux was his first wargame.

Best of luck!

[super_bruno]

Oops, I had also a lenghty answer but hit the Reply to thread button instead of post reply, which erased everything I had written. So here I go again:

1) I want to simplify the game so that my girlfriend can learn the basic concept of miniatures games (stats, LoS, range, melee vs combat vs magic, morale, etc.) but without overwhelming her. Song of blade and heroes I thought would be a suitable way to do this. But I didn't have fun with it at all.

2) Not possible because my girlfriend would need to play with an experienced player, but it's hard enuogh to get her playing at home, there's no way I'm going to drag her in a game store to play.

3) I've begun to realise that. It's unfortunate because my girlfriend loves Teddy and Baby Kade. Also, I feel that somehow the game is targeted at a beginner's crowd, even while being really complex. You can play with a single rules manual, not many mini needed, terraclips gives awesome terrain even to beginners, they sell all of the crews in boxed set, which gives the impression of a pick up and play game, etc...

When deciding which game to play, I also had Anima Tactics, Lord of the rings, Infinity, Warmachine/Hordes, Hell Dorado and SOng of blade and heroes on my list. What would you recommend?

Thanks

[VaeVictus]

2) Best way to learn is like with D&D: play with someone who is already experienced.

- true, but that doesn't mean a better way for teaching the basics (similar to what super_bruno proposed) could't be invented.

I agree with most of your points don't get me wrong. I just wanted to point out that many games like Malifaux can go a long way in teaching the rules gradually. Every video game nowadays have at least some sort of tutorial or similar concept for providing a more narrow learning curve.

It is my sole assumption that every complex system must teach the core mechanics first (i.e. the highest layer of "rock paper scissors") and go into details later. I would use fighting beat'em up video games to draw an example - in Street Fighter games the core R/P/S model in terms of moves is that Attack beats Throw, Throw beats Block and Block beats Attack. No one tells you that in the beginning. You just jump into the game and get overwhelmed by multitude of characters and moves until someday, eventually you figure out the underlying core mechanic of Attack/Throw/Block.

Indeed, I haven't seen any tutorial system in board games in general, nevermind miniature games. But this doesn't mean one could't be invented ;}

Btw, most army-based games try to teach the player the basics by letting him start with a smaller army (points-wise). This is wrong. Playing with fewer instances of the complex mechanics doesn't make the player understand which of them are the important ones and which are detail. Maybe someone can devise a tutorial where the mechanics themselves get more complex with time rather that the size of the army?

[Memento Mori]

I'd stick to the faux, been collecting for a while but only just started to play, now have a regular opponent and we started by using the basics. Ie shared strategy (treasure hunt) and ignored schemes. The australian battle bunker do a really good you tube I'd on how to play its aHour long but gives the basics.

The combo hunting is the hardest part, but looking at the various tactics threads on here they get easier to spot!

From what I've heard infinity is more complicated than malifaux.

[Spiku]

The thing is, a games store gives you terrain, people who know the rules who will guide you through it, instant answer to confusion with the rules, and if you want a "trimmed down" version, will know what sort of rules should be trimmed to make it easier, rather than trying to approach it without the experience to know value.

I'll say that I still think teaching people by eliminating factors is a terrible idea, and I know I would have enjoyed my first few games more if it was the full game.

I'm not sure why you feel your girlfriend playing with an experienced player would be bad; you get an experienced person who holds both of your hands whilst you play through together. If for some bizarre reason you have a girlfriend who is likely to have a problem with the concept game store, or perhaps you yourself have some form of protective fear of your stereotypical neckbeards scaring her off; just go visit a few places until you find someone amenable; scout out before sending her in. I was lucky in the rather handsome chap running our league at DarkSphere is a pleasant chap who got us running very quickly, most people who run demos are, otherwise they wouldn't run them. Equally, it is in a store's best interest to be friendly and supportive, otherwise why'd you go back ;3

Get some recon down, find a place with terrain, get rolling.

Also if I were to start someone out on a wargame I'd probably the intro rules for warhammer, because it is so very simple; hell they run it at games workshops, even if they aren't as pleasant an environment as games stores normally. Super Dungeon Explore and Space Hulk are fun starts for basic combative mechanics before moving on to measurements =3 In fact I highly recommend Super Dungeon Explore.

I'll say for an advanced wargamer, Malifaux is by far my favourite because of the multiple levels of play afforded by card control, turn based activation, huge variety in victory objectives, being able to win with your whole crew dead, and the tactical play between combos, allocating targets, and sacrificial gambits (shoot own model so the blast damage hits the enemy!)

[super_bruno]

I've been clamoring for a starter set for a while now that includes quick start rules and/or a learning guide that gradually adds more rules in subsequent scenarios. Shameless plug for my blog post here:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/entry.php?15-The-worst-Malifaux-player

Since you are newer to wargaming than I am, I'd love your opinion on it.

Hi! I do agree with you and think we have the same ideas. I also would be really happy if they would release a guide: How to learn Malifaux, One rule at a time...

I also wish they would put a small label on each box saying: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced. I bought Pandora for my girlfriend and realised much later that it was one of the most difficult crew to play. The marketing scheme gives the impression that any box is as good as another and that's unfortunate.

I honestly don't know what to add after the first step. It will depend on how it goes...

What would be fun with this approach is that you can stop when you want. Maybe I can stop at step #3, with melee, ranged and magic combat, and some strategies. But I don't care about triggers and whatnot. This way you could tailor the game to your need. I know some crew would be greatly unbalanced by this but maybe they could point it out. Step 1: Choose between those 5 crews, all the other would be unplayable this way...

I still need to read your thread. But I did read your blog.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Malifaux is actually very simple to learn to play, I can teach a new player how to play in about 15 min. It is EXCEPTIONALLY difficult to master the game, and that is where the difficulty lies.

When I demo there are a few things I do before going into a game.

1) Explain that the basic engine the game works on is the card game "War"

2) Go through and describe the statistic blocks very briefly and what each statistic basically means.

3) Describe Weapon stat blocks and what they mean.

4) Go through a few sample attack swings between a model like a Death Marshall vs. a Rotten Belle.

5) Once the basics of duels are understood via the sample attacks, introduce the concept of a fate hand and how cheating works as a way to offset luck when you really need it.

6) Pick only 1 or at most 2 abilities on the cards of a sample crew, and for people who have never played a mini's game before your going to want to limit the crew size, and tell the new player to only look at those and pretend everything else isn't written on the card.

7) Explain how the game has objectives, and that achieving those objectives are how to win the game, and that there are different ways those objectives are chosen, but for learning purposes only use a single shared strat. I tend to use treasure hunt.

8) Run through a learning game explaining everything that you do, and you at least personally play with your fate hand revealed so that you can explain why you cheat when you do, or don't cheat if it is an important duel and you can't succeed.

9) Repeat Demo game as often as desired until the prospective learner feels confident to add another element to the game.

[super_bruno]

I still need to read your thread. But I did read your blog.

You know one thing I've begun to realise, and that your thread confirmed, is that most people on this forum are really competitive. I want to play for fun. I won't study my crew, and I won't study my opponents crew. What I want from the game is to grab a beer, a bowl of chips, and play with a friend. Is it possible to play like that? Is Malifaux so much geared toward competition that it can't be played for fun?

I am now really uncertain about playing Malifaux. Mostly from what I've read on the forums. First was when I learned that my crews were badly chosen for a beginner (PAndora vs Seamus). Second was when I learned that the game was balanced by faction and not by crew. And now it seems I have to study to play the game. Ouch

[Spiku]

Don't be intimidated by what you see on the forums, they are not representative of everyone. If you post on any wargame forum with questions about the team you like, the first responses will be telling you to change your choices and pick the best things. The difference here is because everything is available to see/study, people do, and thus there is a stronger resource for knowing the ropes. In an actual store, or between people picking up and playing, they only have their own experiences. Dreamer players who don't come to the forums, who don't play at tournaments, may not even know that in one activation with a strong combo they can get into the enemy base and back.

I play Gremlins, not outcasts, my partner plays Seamus because she likes him; we still have fun, even when I'm playing against someone who is playing Neverborn, which includes -hard- counters to gremlins.

The point is to have fun, and you can do that easily enough; one of the things in the book is specifically that you should share information about your factions and abilities, so don't feel you need to know the entire game to have fun. It's not like you intend to go to tournaments.

Games are geared to be play, and attempt to balance, but people in these environments will always be competative, and when advice is asked people always try to give the best options because they are trying to be helpful; people use the Nurse model, which I consider terrible, and most people will say: remove it and get something else. But at the same time, many of us will still try and offer options for making it work. In Warhammer, there are people who play with each other, and the people who go to tournaments; yet if you go on a forum everyone will encourage you to build the strongest most powerful tournament lists, which is not representative of what you get playing at stores, or with family and friends (You will find most people don't like the people who "power play")

I can see by the thanks to others in the thread you disagree with my points, but I really think the best way to get to grips with this is with assistance from other people, and I am tempted to believe that you are inferring a very negative image from the forum and expecting this to be the same for people met in a store. Just like people don't like playing vs Hamlin and The Dreamer, so people play friendly lists ;D

[super_bruno]

Haha! Yes I do not agree with your points about not learning the game step by step. You are probably right and my method is wishful thinking, you have much more experience than me. But I keep hoping to find a method of teaching it to my girlfriend. When I read comments like yours I close my eyes and try to make it disappear, because I don't want it to be true ;P. That's why I didn't say "Thanks".

I don't have any problems with the game and I understand most of it. The complexity comes from putting it together all at once and teaching it to someone who doesn't know most of the concepts that drives the game. What I mean is that I know the theory, but putting it into practice is something else.

Of course the image I getfrom the forum is negative. But that's is not what keeps me from going out to play into my FLGS (which is pretty far by the way). It's rather difficult to explain. My girlfriend won't go because she is not what you would call a player. She will play with me from time to time when in the right mood. Getting her to play at home is difficult, getting her to play in our boardgame nights with friends is harder. Getting her to go to a FLGS to learn a game is impossible. She just won't do it.

For me, well my life is really really busy so finding the time to play is really hard. I have my job, then I sing in 2 choirs, which requires at least 30 minutes of practice each day, and I'm also Vice-president for one of the choir, which requires at least 10 hours of work each week. Add to that family and friends and it doesn't leave much time for gaming.

So for the moment going to my FLGS is not an option.

The thing I notice is that many people on the forum seems to have trouble understanding what it means to be a complete newbie. Moving from Warhammer or warmachine to Malifaux is pretty simple. You already have a good grasp of the concepts behind the game. But moving from Monopoly (not the best example but one whom everybody can understand) to Malifaux is quite different. The only similarity is that you have metal pieces.

Edited February 17, 2012 by super_bruno

[Spiku]

That wasn't a demand to be given forum thanks, it was just me explaining my thought process XD But yeah, not many totally new here. It's the main reason I have been encouraging a friend of mine, Finnegan on the forums, to get in contact with you: he had never played a wargame before and started playing Malifaux at the same time with me; we were taught by the same person. I was hoping he'd send you a message to see if he can offer any insight to what worked for him. One of the things people forget is that it is most common to get into wargaming from boardgaming, and it gets hard for them to realise that a lot of the basics of the game come from that development. I started with Space Crusade and Battle Masters; both of which were very simple versions of their more advanced wargames.

It's also why I press the getting someone who knows it to streamline it for you. Certainly I can appreciate difficulty in time scoping; fitting in 2 hours at the gym, time to see my girls, full time work as a family law specialist, sorting out a workshop for my new company, and then trying to find motivation to actually learn something that is strugglesome... doesn't really lend itself to encouragement.

I won't repeat myself again to spare you a headache; but I'll add that maybe you could consider speaking with Gnam; he is a Malifaux "Henchman", located in Motreal too. Henchmen run demos and what have you, so perhaps you could arrange something on your own terms.

That said, it may be interesting for you to post a topic listing yours and her favourite models, and asking for info on their specific use. Having a bit more insight into what your guys can do might help.

Or it might convolute things and overwhelm you both =D Only one way to find out. Why not make use off the blog that wyrd provides each of us to document your advancement~

[Ebonstar]

My wife is an utter non-gamer. She is great about giving me time for the hobby, but I now understand that she just won't game past anything save trivia or standard board games. For her part she has tried a few times, she's played Puppet Wars and has had an okay time playing it- and she loves all the miniatures, she enjoys seeing my finished work and she'll even help me out with terrain once in a while. My wife is well educated, she teaches English and Theater, and she's one of the sharpest people I know.

But she's NOT a gamer. The way she explains it, having to consider strategy, tactics, juggle math and spatial relationships without getting paid isn't her cup of tea. You could say it feels like work to her. And not just Malifaux, ANY game that requires strategy, conditional thinking and math isn't for her ultimately.

As her husband, I just have to accept that this part of my life isn't something she can enjoy with me, and we've come to an understanding here.

Like you- I've tried to get my wife to play Malifaux. Aesthetically she is attracted to the showgirls- so talk about complicated crew. So instead of throwing rules, measuring, etc. all in her face, I simply let her run around with Cassandra and a Performer and kill some undead things, with little regard to the actual rules. I just let her enjoy the very simple pleasure of playing cards in a duel, and she enjoyed it, yet had no interest in learning anything more.

And that's as far as that will ever go. It is important to accept that, as part of the person you are committed to. Now maybe your girlfriend is different, but from everything I read (and yes I read the WHOOOLE thing...) she sounds exactly like my wife in this one regard. My thoughts are: you are best to just find things that you can both fully enjoy with your time together. Gaming (at least the games you're interested in) may not be one of those things.

[super_bruno]

I didn't thank you because I felt bad. I gave it to you because I agreed with your post.

I do have a game night planned with one of my friend on the 23rd of March. It will be Viks against Seamus. Straight from the box. Should be easier with him since he's a huge fan of Final Fantasy, so already familiar with some of the concepts behind the game. It will be my first real game of Malifaux. I'll let you know how it went.

Your friend did send me a Private message and I was glad to receive it. I will try to follow some of his advice.

After that, then maybe I'll be ready to give up, to teach it, or to seek the guidance of a master.

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

Like you- I've tried to get my wife to play Malifaux. Aesthetically she is attracted to the showgirls- so talk about complicated crew. So instead of throwing rules, measuring, etc. all in her face, I simply let her run around with Cassandra and a Performer and kill some undead things, with little regard to the actual rules. I just let her enjoy the very simple pleasure of playing cards in a duel, and she enjoyed it, yet had no interest in learning anything more.

And that's as far as that will ever go. It is important to accept that, as part of the person you are committed to. Now maybe your girlfriend is different, but from everything I read (and yes I read the WHOOOLE thing...) she sounds exactly like my wife in this one regard. My thoughts are: you are best to just find things that you can both fully enjoy with your time together. Gaming (at least the games you're interested in) may not be one of those things.

Well I'm not so sure. I showed her different games, asked if she would be interested to try one of those, and surprisingly she said yes, and was pretty enthusiastic about it. When I showed her the minis (In the end it was Hell Dorado vs Malifaux), she didn't hesistate. We did try 1 game, which lasted 1 turn and a half. She had fun, she want to play again (and I asked her several time) but she was really struggling and she was overwhelmed. After that 1 turn and a half, her head was full and she couldn't concentrate anymore.

When I asked her to play again, she usually answer "Yes, but not now". Which means she is willing to play again, but the rules are a bit too much for her so she'd rather do something more relaxing. By breaking it down in small chunks, it will go easier on her.

But I asked her time and time again is she wants to play it again or she'd rather not, and she still want to play it... someday.

[Sybaris]

You know one thing I've begun to realise, and that your thread confirmed, is that most people on this forum are really competitive. I want to play for fun. I won't study my crew, and I won't study my opponents crew. What I want from the game is to grab a beer, a bowl of chips, and play with a friend. Is it possible to play like that? Is Malifaux so much geared toward competition that it can't be played for fun?

Don't worry too much about forum competitiveness. For myself i play for fun and fluff, and have a good chat in the meanwhile. At the end of the game, if my friends tell me they had a blast, it's mission accomplished for me, whoever won.

Malifaux is quite a niche game when it comes to miniature games, and alot of its concepts are pretty alien even for other gamers. Furthermore, the miniature range is very appealing to painters and converters, who are not necessarily interested in the skirmish game.

The big thing with those games is to make it your own. That's especially true if you don't go to tournaments and stuff; then there's no "bad" way to play the game. So aim at what you and your gaming circle find fun in it. You can even tailor the rules if the player all agree to do so.

My advice to new players is to get the rules manual if they didn't get it. The pdf lacks critical examples which makes things alot clearer. Getting the card decks also help quickening the flips. Then pick models you and your friends really like, and go from there. Start by making a simple minion vs minion duel then add some when you're comfy with what you got. If you go gradually, your brain will work on its own, remembering stuff without too much "work" or effort.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Sybaris

[super_bruno]

Don't worry too much about forum competitiveness. For myself i play for fun and fluff, and have a good chat in the meanwhile. At the end of the game, if my friends tell me they had a blast, it's mission accomplished for me, whoever won.

Malifaux is quite a niche game when it comes to miniature games, and alot of its concepts are pretty alien even for other gamers. Furthermore, the miniature range is very appealing to painters and converters, who are not necessarily interested in the skirmish game.

The big thing with those games is to make it your own. That's especially true if you don't go to tournaments and stuff; then there's no "bad" way to play the game. So aim at what you and your gaming circle find fun in it. You can even tailor the rules if the player all agree to do so.

My advice to new players is to get the rules manual if they didn't get it. The pdf lacks critical examples which makes things alot clearer. Getting the card decks also help quickening the flips. Then pick models you and your friends really like, and go from there. Start by making a simple minion vs minion duel then add some when you're comfy with what you got. If you go gradually, your brain will work on its own, remembering stuff without too much "work" or effort.

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind.