super_bruno

Yes, I think that Anima Tactics could lead us back to Malifaux in the not too distant future. The rules of Malifaux are not too difficult to understand. And that is not really the problem we have with it for the moment. Rather it's the huge number of unique powers and the possible interaction between each characters that is difficult to understand. My players just didn't know what to do each turn. It was a kind of analysis paralysis, not because every action seemed like a good idea, but rather because nobody was too sure what the consequences of an action would be. Maybe the language has something to do with it too. We are all native french speakers and english is a second language (but we DO NOT say "Ze" instead of "the", like those annoying people from France! ) Since the wording in Malifaux is so important, maybe it also leads us to some confusion... I don't know.

When I played Malifaux, I just felt overwhelmed by the huge number of possibilities. Sooo many different option for each character, which can combo together. After 3 hours the thing inside my head felt like a broccoli instead of a brain. It was exhausting, and we were all confused as to what to do. Yes the rules are pretty simple in fact. But the sheer number of unique powers and possible combo is really hard to wrap your head around. I played two games of Anima tactics tonight. My first real tabletop miniatures games. At last! After a few turns, I was able to concentrate on what I was doing instead of trying to make sense of the game. I got to play. That was fun. For some reason, everything about Anima Tactics was clear. What each powers can do, when to use them, what each character should do and how. When I played Malifaux, we were just doing things with no good reason, none of us too sure of their action. I just wish that Malifaux would become less confusing. It seems like a great game, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around it right now. Maybe with some more tabletop experience?

I would gladly do it. I think it could be fun to play it that way. In factm it would be fun to have something comparable to Formula De. In that game, you have 3 level of rules. It goes from doing 1 single lap while trying to finish first and keep your car in one piece to customizable car, with multiple laps, pit stops, weather conditions.... I think that doing separate cards instead of color coding would be better. It's less intimidating when you look at the Rotten Belle's card than when you look at Pandora's card. also, maybe something to remove for a beginner is when a character, like Sybelle or a Belle, have 2 melee weapons. It's not much more difficult to have both, but it does slow down the game a bit.

First, to be clear, I didn't expect to play a game that night, I just invited them at home to discuss with them what kind of miniature game they would like to play. Unfortunately they were too excited and just wanted to play and not discuss. I tried to keep things really simple, but I did add some powers when they asked about it. One of my player really did understand really well the mechanics of the game, really quickly, but he's the one who said he was underwhelmed by the different powers. If they had only 2-3 powers, it would be easier to follow. But I think it's a combination of many factors. Not understanding clearly what is the role of each character and having many powers each lends to some confusion. They just didn't know what to do with each character. Also, there is a lot of "if... then... else" in the power, which add to the overall confusion. Then add the fact that using the powers is really uncertain, that you may cheat or not on duels, that you can spend soulstones, etc, etc. I gets really difficult to think clearly while juggling all this stuff. Nobody has ever played a miniature games in my group before. Except maybe Battlelore for some of them. We all have some experience with computer RPGs like final Fantasy so some concepts are not completely new to us. Also some experience with real-time strategy like Starcraft. We do play boardgames once a month (Arkham Horror, Cyclades, Last Night on earth, Mansions of Madness, Salem, Return of the Heroes...) They like the setting and the minis, the low cost entry, the card mechanics, the alternating activation. Yes, I think it would help to start with less models, on a smaller surface. One thing that would also be really great is if they sold tokens and counters, maybe even include them in each blister and starter box. Like they do for Anima Tactics. Speaking of Anima Tactics, I think my groupe will move toward that game for the moment, which is somewhat similar to Malifaux, but much more straightforward. Then when we have some experience under our belts, maybe we can come back to Malifaux and have much more fun. Again, great to see some people are concerned with the accessibility of the game for beginners. Maybe they could do some color coding on the cards. Green are beginners abilities, yellow are intermediate and red are advanced. Maybe they could also give some indication of what the role of a character is. No need to be too detailed, but again, if we take for example Anima Tactics, you have some indication of this on the cards. You have warriors (fighters), mystics (magic users) and prowlers (sneaky guys), and some combination. Just this simple description gives you an idea of what each character is good for. And for each power, they give you a small hint. They give the name of the power and then a few words the help a lot. MAgic Effect, Magic ranged attack, Charge, Escape, Movement, Attack, Ranged Attack, etc, etc. It is not much, but it does help see at a glance which power you want to use.

I coached a normal game between 2 friends yesterday, with 2 more newbies watching. The game went on for something like 3 hours and they just gave up in the end. I tried to teach the basics and avoid all the special powers but did answer their question and allow the use of their powers when they asked about it. I know that it is not the best choice for beginners but since that's what I had at home, the played Pandora vs Seamus. How I wish I had known that Pandora was not suitable for beginners when I bought it. Keep in mind that we are all complete newbies to miniature gaming. The comments that I received: - The game was a bit too long - The game has potential to be great, but each character has too many unique powers which are mostly undewhelming. - It is pretty unclear what is the role of each character in the crew. I mean, in other games, the guy with the sniper should stay at the back, the guy with the huge sword should go into melee combat, etc, etc. With Malifaux it is not so easy. Not sure they will want to play Malifaux again soon.

Hello! I am wondering what is considered a piece of terrain for Malifaux. The say you should have 3-4 piece of terrain per square foot in the rulebook. But it's not telling me much. I mean 3-4 large buildings is quite different from 3-4 small rocks. Thanks! ---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ---------- OOps, forget my question. I have just realised it is actually written what size is suitable (3"x3"). I thought they were repeating the board size (3'x3').

Simulated 6 combat to the death. 4 without any cheating or triggers. 1 with cheating and use soulstone. Since that didn't change much to the combat, I've added triggers to the sixth. And I already have a question. In a fight like I am doing right now, it's pretty easy to remember that Lilith's Disappear triggers give -2Cb to Perdita. But, how do you keep track of this in a real game. I just imagine that Perdita receives her -2 to Cb at the beginning of the turn, then you have 6-8 models that get to activate, with other triggers and effects and whatever, and then at the end of the turn you have to remember that Perdita still has -2Cb. Do you write it down on a piece of paper, or with some token or just manage to remember it? EDIT: A fun side effect of learning combat first is that you also learn most of the chapter about the Fate Deck at the same time.

I decided to give myself a good kick in the ass and start studying. My first objective will be to learn everything in the combat chapter. First step will be to do many melee fights between Perdita and Lilith. No twisting fate, no soulstones, no triggers Next I will add twisting fate and soulstones. Then I will add triggers. From there, I will still have to learn how blast works, disengaging, the different combat actions (charge, strike, focus, defensive stance). Shooting into melee, paired weapons, elevation, damage prevention and healing. Thats a lot of work for a single chapter... 9 pages out of 125...

Nice to see someone is working towars on a solution that could really help smoothing the learning curve of Malifaux. Seems like my constant whining is beginning to have some effects! Yay! As an aside, I got a really nice surprise yesterday. My Malifaux group was: Me and My grilfriend. Yesterday morning I asked a few friends on facebook if they would be interested in trying a Miniature Wargame, and offered them a lot of choice (40K, Warmachine Hell Dorado, Anima tactics, mordheim, Lord of the rings, Epic 40k, etc, etc). Surprise surprise! I got 5 more players willing to try Malifaux now. Just that renewed my interest in learning to play correctly. I haven't tried to teach Malifaux yet except to my girlfriend, but I did teach 3 of them how to play Battlelore. The first one learned by playing against me. The other two learned by playing together while I acted as a referee a guide. I must say that for me teaching and playing at the same time is not much fun. I find it much easier to teach while the other 2 are playing. It's really fun to whisper a nasty trcik in the ear of one player, then do the same for the other player the next turn. When I play at the same time, I find it harder to adjust my playing level. If I do some dirty trciks against my opponent, I feel rather unfair, and if I don't then there is some aspect of the game they won't learn... That's why I got that idea of an obstacle course. That way I can supervise and teach while the other player goes "solo" against the challenge offered by the course. Keep me informed on your teaching method. I am really interested.

Well, for it to work you would have to always use the same character. Maybe Perdita? I don't know which one would work. Once you've learned the basics, I guess you could play the game?

Hello all! Still struggling to find a way to learn the game and teach the game to complete newbie to miniature gaming. I've thought about removing lots of rules for introductory games but the idea was not that well received on the forums. I'm also under the impression that Wyrd is reluctant to devise a tutorial for the game. So I've kept thinking and another idea came to me: What if we could learn and teach the game, using a kind of obstacle course to learn the basic mechanics. Something similar to what we see in First-Person shooter (like the first Splinter Cell). You could have a first section where you learn to use the Walk action (pretty easy but it's important to learn it no?). Then move over severe terrain, climbing and jumping. Next you could have a station where your learn melee combat (strike, charge, disengaging, etc.) Another for ranged combat and LOS, another for spell casting, etc, etc. What do you think?

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind.

I didn't thank you because I felt bad. I gave it to you because I agreed with your post. I do have a game night planned with one of my friend on the 23rd of March. It will be Viks against Seamus. Straight from the box. Should be easier with him since he's a huge fan of Final Fantasy, so already familiar with some of the concepts behind the game. It will be my first real game of Malifaux. I'll let you know how it went. Your friend did send me a Private message and I was glad to receive it. I will try to follow some of his advice. After that, then maybe I'll be ready to give up, to teach it, or to seek the guidance of a master. ---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ---------- Well I'm not so sure. I showed her different games, asked if she would be interested to try one of those, and surprisingly she said yes, and was pretty enthusiastic about it. When I showed her the minis (In the end it was Hell Dorado vs Malifaux), she didn't hesistate. We did try 1 game, which lasted 1 turn and a half. She had fun, she want to play again (and I asked her several time) but she was really struggling and she was overwhelmed. After that 1 turn and a half, her head was full and she couldn't concentrate anymore. When I asked her to play again, she usually answer "Yes, but not now". Which means she is willing to play again, but the rules are a bit too much for her so she'd rather do something more relaxing. By breaking it down in small chunks, it will go easier on her. But I asked her time and time again is she wants to play it again or she'd rather not, and she still want to play it... someday.

Haha! Yes I do not agree with your points about not learning the game step by step. You are probably right and my method is wishful thinking, you have much more experience than me. But I keep hoping to find a method of teaching it to my girlfriend. When I read comments like yours I close my eyes and try to make it disappear, because I don't want it to be true ;P. That's why I didn't say "Thanks". I don't have any problems with the game and I understand most of it. The complexity comes from putting it together all at once and teaching it to someone who doesn't know most of the concepts that drives the game. What I mean is that I know the theory, but putting it into practice is something else. Of course the image I getfrom the forum is negative. But that's is not what keeps me from going out to play into my FLGS (which is pretty far by the way). It's rather difficult to explain. My girlfriend won't go because she is not what you would call a player. She will play with me from time to time when in the right mood. Getting her to play at home is difficult, getting her to play in our boardgame nights with friends is harder. Getting her to go to a FLGS to learn a game is impossible. She just won't do it. For me, well my life is really really busy so finding the time to play is really hard. I have my job, then I sing in 2 choirs, which requires at least 30 minutes of practice each day, and I'm also Vice-president for one of the choir, which requires at least 10 hours of work each week. Add to that family and friends and it doesn't leave much time for gaming. So for the moment going to my FLGS is not an option. The thing I notice is that many people on the forum seems to have trouble understanding what it means to be a complete newbie. Moving from Warhammer or warmachine to Malifaux is pretty simple. You already have a good grasp of the concepts behind the game. But moving from Monopoly (not the best example but one whom everybody can understand) to Malifaux is quite different. The only similarity is that you have metal pieces.

You know one thing I've begun to realise, and that your thread confirmed, is that most people on this forum are really competitive. I want to play for fun. I won't study my crew, and I won't study my opponents crew. What I want from the game is to grab a beer, a bowl of chips, and play with a friend. Is it possible to play like that? Is Malifaux so much geared toward competition that it can't be played for fun? I am now really uncertain about playing Malifaux. Mostly from what I've read on the forums. First was when I learned that my crews were badly chosen for a beginner (PAndora vs Seamus). Second was when I learned that the game was balanced by faction and not by crew. And now it seems I have to study to play the game. Ouch

Hi! I do agree with you and think we have the same ideas. I also would be really happy if they would release a guide: How to learn Malifaux, One rule at a time... I also wish they would put a small label on each box saying: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced. I bought Pandora for my girlfriend and realised much later that it was one of the most difficult crew to play. The marketing scheme gives the impression that any box is as good as another and that's unfortunate. I honestly don't know what to add after the first step. It will depend on how it goes... What would be fun with this approach is that you can stop when you want. Maybe I can stop at step #3, with melee, ranged and magic combat, and some strategies. But I don't care about triggers and whatnot. This way you could tailor the game to your need. I know some crew would be greatly unbalanced by this but maybe they could point it out. Step 1: Choose between those 5 crews, all the other would be unplayable this way... I still need to read your thread. But I did read your blog.

Oops, I had also a lenghty answer but hit the Reply to thread button instead of post reply, which erased everything I had written. So here I go again: 1) I want to simplify the game so that my girlfriend can learn the basic concept of miniatures games (stats, LoS, range, melee vs combat vs magic, morale, etc.) but without overwhelming her. Song of blade and heroes I thought would be a suitable way to do this. But I didn't have fun with it at all. 2) Not possible because my girlfriend would need to play with an experienced player, but it's hard enuogh to get her playing at home, there's no way I'm going to drag her in a game store to play. 3) I've begun to realise that. It's unfortunate because my girlfriend loves Teddy and Baby Kade. Also, I feel that somehow the game is targeted at a beginner's crowd, even while being really complex. You can play with a single rules manual, not many mini needed, terraclips gives awesome terrain even to beginners, they sell all of the crews in boxed set, which gives the impression of a pick up and play game, etc... When deciding which game to play, I also had Anima Tactics, Lord of the rings, Infinity, Warmachine/Hordes, Hell Dorado and SOng of blade and heroes on my list. What would you recommend? Thanks

A few weeks ago, I posted a review on boardgamegeek http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/750908/not-for-the-casual-gamer which stated that Malifaux was really too complex for me and that I would rather try to translate the Malifaux universe and characters to the Song of Blades and Heroes system. I got to try Song of Malifaux this weekend and I must say it was a really big disappointment. The game was sooooo bland. It felt sooo limited. I put a lot of work into this project and was really excited to try it... but it was boring. But I'm not ready to give up on Malifaux yet. I've invested time and money in this game (5 crews, painted 2 of those, built some worldworks buildings, put them in the garbage and bought 2 box of terraclips instead, bought the 2 first books and the rules manual) and I'm pretty sure I could actually enjoy it when I will master the rules. So I've decided to follow the advice that I received in answer to my review and will try to learn the game Step-by-step. I just wish that Wyrd would release a quickstart guide or something to help newbies like me to learn the game. Here is the content I will include in the first step and ignore everything else. (I must say I kept in my mind every concept that my girlfriend is not familiar with, for example Character Stats, since she never played and RPG before). Hope to try it soon. Game setup: - Terrain and crew preselected (starter box) - Standard deployment - No schemes - 1 strategy: Either Treasure Hunt, Slaughter, Claim Jump or Destroy the evidence Turn structure: - Discard phase - Draw phase - Initiative phase - Activation phase - Shuffle phase Card Mechanic: - Red and black Joker. - Card value - Ignore card suit - Twisting fate - Cheating fate - No soulstone use - Simple Duel - Opposed Duel Characters Cards: - Walk - Defence - Wounds - Weapon type - Weapon range - Weapon combat rating - Weapon damage Line of sight: - Either Full LoS or Blocked Actions: - Walk - Strike - Interact - Pass Melee/Ranged Combat: - Choosing a target (pre-measuring allowed) - Normal Combat duel with damage modifier and damage flip, no trigger and no soulstones

Of course the AI would not be the same as playing with another person. Living impaired rules are the same as the mindless zombies. I have not looked at the others. What is interesting about the AI of Dungeon Twister is that the AI is not a simple move toward closest and attack. It is rather cunning. They grab items, attack specific characters, flee and rotates rooms. Each AI character has a personnality. The example I gave for Pandora is not playtested and I didn't put much thought into it. Just wrote it quickly to give an example. But the AI could be easily tweaked so she tries to keep her distance and cast her spells from afar.

Hi! I've yet to play Malifaux because I lack a gaming partner, but I've been thinking about a way to play solitaire. I don't know how it would work. The mindless zombies gave me the basic idea. And I think an AI similar to the one used in Dugeon Twister 2: Prison could work really well. The basic structure of the game would be the same. Characters abilities would still be active. Each team would get his fate deck. But the AI team doesn't get a hand, cannot cheat fate or use soulstone and don't get scheme or strategies. Deployment could be specific to each character. For example: Seamus is deployed within 8 inches of his Belles... Now for the AI we could have a set of instructions to resolve in order. If the first instruction is not possible, the nmove to the next instruction. For example an AI Pandora: 1st action (0) action: a)Cast pacify if a model is within range 2nd action (1st general action point): a) Melee combat Cast Self loathing c) Cast trapped in your own nightmare d) Cast Dementia e) Move to a range of 10 inches of nearest model 3rd action (2nd general action point): Same as number 2 4th action (action point gained by casting expert): a) Cast Self loathing Cast trapped in your own nightmare c) Cast Dementia What do you think?

Hello! My name is Bruno, I'm 34 and I'm looking for some players in Montreal, near the Olympic stadium. I know most of you will recommend going to my FLGS but I'd prefer to play at home or at my partner's. Anyone interested?

And I'm still dreaming of the day when I will have the choice to buy my minis pre-painted or not. I made the huge mistake of painting some of my battlelore minis (there 217 minis in the core box). While I really enjoy painting, I'm getting really bored with painting the 72 identical regular infantry minis. And there still a lot to paint yet. So having the choice to buy those 72 minis painted, because I'm not interested in painting the same mini 72 times, would be great. But I would still be interested to buy the spider unpainted and do it myself.

Glad you like the discussion. I thought it was dead with the comment about geeks being happy having a special elite exclusive hobby all of their own. I just don't understand the need to have something exclusive. For me, it's the more the merrier! When I read a good book, see a good movie, try a great new activity, etc. I always feel the need to share it with everybody around me. I mean, if I "discover" a really great novel and don't share it with anybody, am I doing a great service to the author? I think not. He needs the support of the readers, he need it that people talk about his book. And I think it's the same thing for miniature wargaming. For the moment, I think that the marketing scheme is to constantly update and release new stuff, because to keep on living, those companies have to sell again and again to the restricted community. And I find this kind of marketing annoying. But if the community was more willing to share with non-geeks, the companies would be able to do something a bit different. Sure there is always the risk of "diluting" or "corrupting" the hobby. But I would be willing to take that risk. If we look at the video game industry. There is a lot more games coming out nowadays than it used to. A lot of those games are crap, but there are still really good games being released.

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I will be able to overcome my shyness and reluctance and go play with some fellow gamers in my LGS. I do love to play with my girlfriend, but she is really busy and sometimes I grow tired of waiting.

I must confess that my experience in wargaming community is mostly based on what I've seen in the forums. Though I think people on Dakka are really nice. I don't have a lot of "live" experience in FLGS. The guy that sold me Malifaux in Montreal was really nice and friendly. Though a bit too assuming about my knowledge of wargames. He lost me with his talk about the different possibilities each crew offered. But he was really nice. But the overall feeling I got surfing on the different forum is that the wargaming crowd was intolerant and "cult like". By the way, I used to be a martial artist, and studied in a kung fu school. At the time everything seemed perfectly normal to me, but now, thinking back about the attitude, ethics and everything related to this school. It was mostly a cult behavior that we had.