Guardian Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi, Im just wondering if Lilith is in any way possible to run without nephilim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) You can include Waldegeist for sure, especially if you intend to manifest her avatar. Nothing prevents you from fielding Stitched as well. Edited February 15, 2012 by Sybaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 You can include Waldegeist for sure, especially if you intend to manifest her avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I don't have my book 3 atm, but i'll fill you in a bit when i get some time at home, less someone else have done so in the meanwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Great, thnx! Looking forward to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Here's all of her options, if that's any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Well as a sort of tease (because i can't put all there is), Lilith's avatar doesn't support nephilim much in the first place. She starts focusing on forests and behaves suspiciously like a waldegeist on steroids. She now sprouts real forests around, and can hit stuff near forests...you get the picture. So obviously Waldegeist are going to benefit from having Miss mother nature on the turf. Furthermore, one of her manifest condition will help them by creating temporary forest around until she goes roar. I'd take at least 2 (or 3) Waldegeist with Lilith Avatar, so that's a good bunch of SS right there. Bad Juju could be a fluffy earth and minerals supplement to your forest, and he does pack a punch...so he can help to "convince" enemy models to go near your forests as they try to avoid him. Stitched together could bolster the already defensive nature of the crew with the fog. You could perhaps get a primordial magic totem to cast illusionary forests (it already has the :masks). All in all this wouldn't be "competitive", as they say, but you can run a test and see if it is fun to play Edited February 16, 2012 by Sybaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Other than Brood Mother and the Blood Counter stuff she doesn't actually have a lot of abilities that specifically need Nephilim. If you can live without a simultaneous activation and you're not trying to grow Tots then neither of those are essential. I often use her with Stitched and Waldgeists, but I always end up taking some kind of Nephilim too 'cos they're all pretty handy. Tots are fast, the bigger ones are good for melee. Why wouldn't you take them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Other than Brood Mother and the Blood Counter stuff she doesn't actually have a lot of abilities that specifically need Nephilim. If you can live without a simultaneous activation and you're not trying to grow Tots then neither of those are essential. I often use her with Stitched and Waldgeists, but I always end up taking some kind of Nephilim too 'cos they're all pretty handy. Tots are fast, the bigger ones are good for melee. Why wouldn't you take them? I dislike the nephilim models... And I cant play/paint so many models i dont really want to paint xD This is some interesting stuff about avatar Lilith! Cant wait to get the book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 You could perhaps get a primordial magic totem to cast illusionary forests (it already has the :masks). Don't the totems disappear once your Avatar manifests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Don't the totems disappear once your Avatar manifests? Yes, they do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Oh it was just to help sprout illusionary forests until you can do the real ones, so that your Waldegeists have more than one wood pile to move around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Um, Only one illusionary forest can be in play at a time and Lilith has to cast it twice to manifest. Therefore, using a totem to cast illusionary forest for your waldgeists seems to be pretty counter-intuitive if you are going to manifest anyway. I like Bad Juju, but I don't think I would ever take him with Lilith. The mature nephilim is a better choice for her because of the simultaneous activation. The mature is very mobile (with flight, diving attack, and knock aside), whereas Bad Juju's mobility comes only in his deep strike ability. This can only be done once without spending even more stones on him, and he can't do much on the turn he arrives (except for grab an unattended objective, which is why I like him) I have played Lilith using only Waldgeists and Sillurids on a board which had trees and a swamp. It worked extremely well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Seems i need to re-read totem stuff for illusionary forests. Thanks for the precision. Anyway, of course the Mature is better than bad juju with Lilith due to synnergy, but Guardian wants to avoid nephilim altogether. Juju is a serious hitter, and while slow compared to Matures, he can appear behind the enemy, squeezing them between your advancing "uprooted forests" and his mud brawl. Plus Lilith is super fast, manifested or not, so she can hammer things that don't get caught. You could try Alps too...slowing people in forests (and juju can slow people as well, in a deadly way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CN the Logos Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I dislike the nephilim models... And I cant play/paint so many models i dont really want to paint xD Does that include the twins? Because Lelu and Lilitu are nephilim too, and they're probably the best ones out so far at that. But if you really hate winning them too, rest assured that Lilith's synergy with nephilim is pretty much limited to Brood Mother and Drain Blood. Other than that, she's a melee beatstick with high Defense (but no way of reducing damage other than negative flips from her defense if she doesn't dodge an attack altogether) and a couple of terrain manipulation abilities. Nothing about that yells "nephillim" although the combination of speed and murder they offer is nice to have. One model I've had great success with in my Lillith crew is Von Schill, to the point where if the strategy and schemes don't just boil down to "kill things" he's almost always a better use of 10 SS than the Mature Nephil. Don't be fooled by the extra 4 SS investment over Convict Gunslinger; between the extra walk and flight/immunity to disengaging, he leaps around the battlefield shooting things and getting $$$$$$$$ done like a steampunk lovechild of Iron Man and Revolver Ocelot. Freikorps armor is awesome, and being able to say "no, I don't die yet" as long as you have a soulstone is double awesome. Get him if you haven't done so already. You will not regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I like what Im hearing! Von Badass + lilith?! Yes please! Lilitu, nekima and tuco are the nephilim i would enjoy painting Damn, i gotta get that book! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 like a steampunk lovechild of Iron Man and Revolver Ocelot. *love* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I have wanted to try using Taelor with Lilith instead of the mature. Taelor hits just as hard and is much more survivable. She can also be turned into a nephilim with a bbs in case you want to be able to use brood mother with her. The only downside is that she is much less mobile than a mature, but she has a 3 inch melee range with a magic weapon to make up for it. (I guess she also isn't terrifying, but oh well) As far as using Von Schill, I have found that I haven't had any trouble completing Lilith's objectives. She and her usual minions are usually fast enough without Von Schill. If you want something in faction thats not a nephilim, I would recommend Sillurids and Insideous Madness for objective taking. A lot of people don't like using Nekima. I think shes great, though she does tend to die a lot. She has a very large, 13 soul stone target on her head. Edited February 16, 2012 by micahwc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 a steampunk lovechild of Iron Man and Revolver Ocelot. Could be the best quote i've read on here in a long time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CN the Logos Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I like what Im hearing! Von Badass + lilith?! Yes please! Lilitu, nekima and tuco are the nephilim i would enjoy painting Damn, i gotta get that book! Also, can't believe I missed this bit of advice the first time, but regarding Primordial Magic. Don't take him because he can cast Lilith's spells. That's a bonus, if you need it. Take Primordial Magic because Arcane Reservoir and Rush of Magic stack, and drawing up to eight cards at the start of every turn rocks hard even if you have to discard the lowest/least useful. As far as using Von Schill, I have found that I haven't had any trouble completing Lilith's objectives. She and her usual minions are usually fast enough without Von Schill. If you want something in faction thats not a nephilim, I would recommend Sillurids and Insideous Madness for objective taking. I'd consider it if I had fishmen on hand, but I bought Zoraida without her box specifically because I already had a couple of big hitters and speedy things and the Master herself was the only thing I cared about. Plus, Von Schill's usefulness is not just a case of him being speedy. It's a case of him being well-armored, well-armed, capable of using soulstones to boost his attacks or give the grim reaper your obscene gesture of choice, nigh impossible to influence with anything that targets his Willpower, capable of boosting your crew's resistance to Morale-based attacks, and speedy. Lillith/Von Schill forever, yo. *love* Could be the best quote i've read on here in a long time... Search your feelings. You know it to be true. All he needs for the comparison to absolutely perfect as opposed to just really apt is some sort of bullet ricochet ability. Still, it's close enough that I can write a battle report saying, "Oogie Boogie and Iron Ocelot leapt out from behind a building and proceeded to shoot Jack the Ripper in the face." And isn't that what's really important? :Smug_Puppet2: Edited February 16, 2012 by CN the Logos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 What do you say on this list: Lilith + Avatar Lilitu Lelu 2 waldgeists My only trouble is getting a stedy supply of blood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 It's a fairly small group - although they're tough. What do you need the steady supply of blood for with this group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 It's a fairly small group - although they're tough. What do you need the steady supply of blood for with this group? Avatar, once she manifests, i guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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