Themed lists ala Warmachine/Hordes for Malifaux

[VaeVictus]

@Candi - Great! You almost made me jump out and start playing L5R - without knowing anything else about the game!

I will think about this kind of "themed lists". Thank you for the inspiration.

Edited January 22, 2012 by VaeVictus

[Candi]

On 'Actually thematic theme lists' -- the important thing to take away from L5R theme decks is the utter lack of restrictions. The only requirement on part of the designer is to convey to viewers (judges in particular) the theme they are going for. Be that apparent by merely looking at the table (the Iron Chef example) or that it requires reading a short story (as is often the case, that is the most common route players take). Some even go so far as to play the deck thematically (whatever that means! )

For Malifaux, it's a miniatures game so the possibilities expand quickly. Some theme deck builders make proxy cards (identical abilities but changing flavour, images and titles of cards) to better establish the theme - in a miniatures game that's an even more open option (conversions anyone?). The absolute best part about this is that, since conversions make thematic tweaking easier on a model by model basis, it's entirely reasonable to expect thematic crews to also be built at a competitive level. In L5R often making a theme deck means not competing with it. In Malifaux, the Colette in Wonderland Crew could absolutely be brought into the tournament proper and even take the day! (C'mon, Cassandra is totally the White Rabbit, look at how she moves! Just convert a tiny bit for her to have a big pocket watch instead of the sabre!).

The challenge being to create a Crew that both idolizes your chosen theme and also stays true to Malifaux and the Crew itself in some manner.

I think there's an interesting competition based in this idea, because I know there's lots of talented artists and players on these boards and into this game. Maybe the next Master's or World's equivalent event should try to work in a similar 'Theme-Crew' sub competition.

Perhaps we could test-drive the idea on an 'images of your crew' basis as a forum competition.

[VaeVictus]

The challenge being to create a Crew that both idolizes your chosen theme and also stays true to Malifaux and the Crew itself in some manner.

- yup, that's right. Normally a company wouldn't like her own events to promote other people's work (say Alice in Wonderland) so much as its own. So, if we are to have it official (and we want them to provided prizes) the themed crew must still have a base in Malifaux as you said. And this isn't bad because I think it's actually more interesting to translate a given theme (say Alice) into the Malifaux lore rather than just, you know, copy over the whole stuff.

[Candi]

- yup, that's right. Normally a company wouldn't like her own events to promote other people's work (say Alice in Wonderland) so much as its own. So, if we are to have it official (and we want them to provided prizes) the themed crew must still have a base in Malifaux as you said. I think it's actually more interesting to translate given theme (say Alice) into Malifaux terms rather than just, you know, copy the whole stuff.

Absolutely, I hadn't though of the practical business reasons but I agree.

I think as a fundamental rule you must must must start with Wyrd miniatures. Further, your Colette still must maintain enough resemblance to be recognized as Colette (such that she would, and is, played as Colette).

As far as I am concerned, anyone who has 'Zombie-fied' a crew is creating a Theme Crew (I think I've seen some 'Undead Guild' crews around somewhere).

[VaeVictus]

I remember back in Warhammer Fantasy, there's this Ogre Kingdoms faction where the ogres themselves are big bulky ugly brutes. There was a "themed army" of them utilizing a middle-ages Japan samurai theme. It was very odd to see the barbaric brutes in stylish kimono ((: The little goblins that accompany the Ogres were dressed as geishas with fans and stuff. And the whole scenery consistent of peaceful sakura threes and lakes.

[CrazyCarl]

A big difference between Warmahordes and Malifaux is the sizes of the two games. WM/H is much larger than Malifaux, and as such the tiered lists have a larger pool of models to draw from. And as I said in the OP, tiered lists really aren't a viable path now. I mainly posted this in the hopes that Wyrd developers might see the idea and have it shelved for future books.

My other issue was the fact that there are models that just don't see a lot of play due to being underwhelming on the tabletop. In my local play group we're not super-competitive, but it's seldom you'll see someone play a model just because they like how it looks. I know we're not the norm, but I'd like the option of a mechanic that would encourage us to play the seldom used models. In the short term I think a revamp of statlines for book 1 models (because really, those are the ones that get sidelined most often) would probably be the best fix, but long term I think tiered lists could be a viable mechanic in the game, especially as the fluff develops and new characters get added in.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I definitely like theme lists that reward you for going the fluff route, so although I'm not interested in Warmachine/Hordes this was one Mechanic I liked. I agree that if Wyrd ever does decide to explore this route it could help address some of the current under performing or underpowered masters and Minions that currently don't get used, or whose role is already shared by multiple other models.

For Example perhaps if Ramos sticks only to certain minions he gets a bonus to his SS Cache, and a certain minion/minions would get a talent similar to the Witchling Handler's Teamwork ability. He would be prevented therefore from taking some of the stronger Arcanist Minions, but he would get a little boost and his minions that might not be taken purely because they lack a competitive edge would get a little boost too.

[Mako]

I relaly like the idea of the kind of themed crews Candi was talking about, I always enjoy looking at the ones that pop up on here. There's been a few really clever ones (one that springs to mind, someone did a bioshock themed crew by converting wyrd models).

I'd do one myself, but haven't got any clever ideas at the moment!

[Candi]

I relaly like the idea of the kind of themed crews Candi was talking about, I always enjoy looking at the ones that pop up on here. There's been a few really clever ones (one that springs to mind, someone did a bioshock themed crew by converting wyrd models).

I'd do one myself, but haven't got any clever ideas at the moment!

I'm already in the process of Colette in Wonderland (fiance is helping with some conversionary aspects, little bits here and there, as she's a jeweler and has the fine motor skills and I'm lible to explode the miniatures).

Thinking about the crew got me to thinking - movies/tv's/games and popular media themes are the 'obvious' fare and a really cool and unique approach might be to try and use a Crew to convey an abstract concept (as I was thinking of Colette at the time, Music, came to mind).

Skies the limit!

Anyway, I think this is getting divergent from the original topic (given that this idea is *nothing* like Warmachine 'thematics').

As an on topic note: I agree that there should not be a mechanical bonus for any kind of 'theme list'. Not only can it cause the diversity of crews to diminish (more) but offering up kickers for using more restrictive options, but it also screams of 'lazy balancing'... why not just, improve the models that don't see play in a way that makes them viable again?

[VaeVictus]

but it also screams of 'lazy balancing'... why not just, improve the models that don't see play in a way that makes them viable again?

- this, for the love of god. Edited January 22, 2012 by VaeVictus

[CrazyCarl]

Designers can then encourage people to play model combinations they might otherwise not play. Something like Seamus plays with a Nurse, and the Nurse gains an ability like "when this model dies, Seamus gains 10:crows when casting Arise, My Sweet until the end of his next activation." That gives the flavor of the Nurse being pressed into the ranks and encourages playing odd combos one might not otherwise be inclined to play.

[Mantis840]

I really hope Wyrd does NOT ever give bonuses for taking certain crew combos like in Warmahorde. If ya wanted to have those bonuses then play the game system that gives them. I personally love the fact that you don't have to have a set list before you come to the table, just announce your faction and play whatever feels right. That's one of the things that makes Malifaux different from other gaming systems, but enough of that.

I also wanted to comment on "under powered" and "under used" models. I think this has less to due with the models themselves and moreso to due with the type of gamers that have evolved since the introduction of forums. Now I know everyone will want to jump up right away and say" my list is original ", or " I don't use template lists from forums." But just chill out cause everyone nowadays gets at least a tiny tidbit of info here and there from the forums, otherwise none of us would be on here, but I digress.

Point is now everything has to be made for "optimal performance." Sure I'm a guild at heart and those are what I bring when I travel to tournaments, but for casual and local hobby games I decided to make a small Marcus list. I enjoyed the look and painting the ccerberus and prides, the list sucks but is a fun themed list for casual play. Another player who's tourney style is outcasts is working on an awesome "twisted AiWL" list and some about turning one of the canine remains into a demented treashure cat. So get your tourney list sure, and if you have some extra time n money, snag something you think looks cool or has potential. Winning isn't everything.