hating the neverborn

[fishtank]

Having just faced the Dreamer with my Sonnia crew for the first time, following on from a couple of soul destroying games vs Zoraida, I can only empathise with this post.

Seriously got the feeling that Chompy was not properly playtested tonight, though I do think some minor tweaks would at least make him feel vaguely killable - taking away the frankly ridiculous ability to defensive stance his entire crew and allowing the bonuses to be protected through the bury-unbury would be number 1. I can handle having a stupid powerful attack, but the chance to take an honest shot back (without double twisted defence flips to face, on top of everything being terrifying) would be nice.

FWIW My crew was Sonnia, Sam, 2 WS, Austringer, guardian, watcher. I had Turf War as my strategy, claim jump and eye-for-an-eye (a long shot based on being able to deal some damage that last one) as schemes. he had D+LCB, 2 Stitched, teddy, Coppelius, 3 Daydreams. D-stanced, dropped LCB on Sam's head, then dropped him on Sonnia, she survived LCB, but then got gambled to death. We ended at that point, because of time.

[Ozz]

For Sonnia, vs the dreamer take that outcast totem, give your self fast, deploy opposite the dreamer and with fast and run as far as you can across the board and spam the spell that hits the models with Ca7+ without los, and dreamer dies, Df 2 Vs Ca 7 even with stones its a likely losing battle, then you play the dreamer like a normal crew walking across the board. Ofc this does require them to not bomb you or you to get first turn initiative, but Sonnia that ive seen has the best options against the dreamer. Surprised ive never heard of it being used before though.

Or for more hilarity, violition of magic him to death:P Granted you can SS and prevent wounds, but that thought just amused me so had to say it:P

But that gives you a 25" threat range with flame burst, burning 2 stones for the casting (the +1 ca tome and a stone for the flip) your at +6 over the dreamer player to start so odds are you get a cheatable flip if you cheat in severe, the prevention flip must be severe to keep him alive.

Sorry i know this is not meant to be dreamer focused, but was just something that had come to mind that is useful vs the dreamer.

[Ozz]

Sorry got that wrong, its a 22" range so not as effective as i thought due to she only has a 4" move But can still work, just not as well as i had thought.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Wouldn't work at all like that come up with way to increase range by 3" with companion you can do this. Think is there a way to push up or placement effect? There is a way think it through.

[Ozz]

Nah i thought she had a Wk of 5 when i made the post but as i said she walks 4" so it does not quite add up for the 24" apart, maybe the corners one it works for who knows, don't know the maths on how far apart you are there.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Hoping you could come up with it but here you go, I'd they deploy to do there stupid def stance terrifying gag try this.

Lucius double walks reinforces Sonia up she is now 15" up there is your 25". I thought he had a delivery order spell like Austringer but guess not.

So two activations you are threatening dreamer deployment zone. At least you now prevented the priming of def stance. No dreamer wants to face his crew being bombed that badly. Now you can threaten the daydreamers. Also you could reactivate Lucius by sacing dog and reinforce an Austringer instead of Sonia, and have Austringer threaten daydreams and dreamer crew. Also give Austringer fast this can bring the pain. Or reinforce Nino with fast after stitches have gone, if they didn't fog up.

Above strategy only works of player plans to prime bomb. Lucius is actually quite good against dreamer because he can have crew right back without fear of terrifying. He can also handle a bomb as the target fairly well. Place him at the front and drop everything back to table edge and he can handle the rest.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[SoulG]

The Neverborn have wide, game-sweeping control. They set the tempo of the whole game, that's how they win. Their primary weakness is that it's usually one or two (admittedly VERY had to kill) models that make the whole crew "work." The trick is to turn that on its head, set the tempo early, and either eliminate those key models as soon as possible OR set the tempo by completing your strategies/schemes turn 1 or turn 2.

Also, give Perdita a whirl. She's great against Neverborn. Lucious + Lady J is all right as well.

[TheOneWhoFell]

I like to run 'Dita against Neverborn. It's what she was made for. The Judge is really good too, as are Austringers. I would suggest Stalkers over DMs, personally, but that is my preference. Fast movement and long range are good points, as is high Wp/Df.

I agree with *waves hand* any body who said to concentrate on your schemes and strategy. Let LCB concentrate on killing you. It may keep him away from his goals and lose them the game. THAT is why I love Malifaux. You don't have to kill everyone in order to win. If you complete your goals, you can let your whole crew die... and it wont matter. So count on Speed and High Wp/Df.... and run like the wind

Blowing things up never hurt either

[CrazyCarl]

I think restricting the Dreamer to connecting two Daydreams would help a lot.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Why? He can still do all the tricks that make him, in my opinion, over the line of power level.

[Odin1981]

I would guess that would be to stop the companion chain I go 30" and gib a model then come back to freedom from aggression combo otherwise known as the "dreamer shuffle".

[CrazyCarl]

The crazy alpha strike is what I have a problem with. I have yet to see or come up with a good way of dealing with it. With 2 DD he's still crazy mobile, but that mobility is much, much more limited (33% more limited in fact) with only 2 DD. I'd say let him use only 1, but I think that might be a bit much.

[Fetid Strumpet]

But you only need 2 Daydreams to not only reach the opposing side and either strike with chompy, or strike with chompy and drop the whole crew off, and then be pulled back into the Dreamer's deployment zone. I never see Dreamer players run with the full three.

[CrazyCarl]

Er, bad math. One then

[Ozz]

Taking 3 is the safer option as it requires a 3+ of masks rather than getting the final hit with a tome on chompys attacks to replace him with the dreamer:)