So, Lazarus

[Sygerrik]

So sorry, hold on, but can someone explain to me the burying/perma-assimilate thing? I get that he can discard scrap counters to make stuff permanent, is this something else? Sorry, I am really new to this game and kind of slow, but I don't get this.

Also, I wish I could use Lazarus with Hoffman so badly I can taste it. Ugh.

[Necromorph]

Well he can assimilate the ability to burrow from a soulstone miner, that's how he can bury himself. Also, he can assimilate other things without making them permanent, bit if he buries himself, then those abilities don't wear off until the turn after is pops out. Buried models are not subject to effects ending during the closing phase.

[Sygerrik]

Buried models are not subject to effects ending during the closing phase.

Aha. So if he assimilates it, buries himself, then next turn he'll still have it and he can unbury, assimilate something else, fire off a shot and rebury? And then next turn he'll still have tunneling (since it won't have worn off in the end closing step since he still wasn't on the board) and the new one?

That's silly. Awesome, but silly.

[SoulG]

Edit: Realized you can't assimilate things that reference models by name. Bah

[Twisted Metal]

Yup. He's my new Rusty Alyce.

Yup he's going to replace mine as well. I think everyone is trying so hard to find the best combo for assimilate that the ability overshadows his gun. Instead I'm taking him for the gun and using assimilate as an extra bonus that will allow him to melt into any Levi list.

[Sandwich]

Here's a question;

Who is he more powerful with; Leveticus or Ramos?

I'm thinking Levi because of all the sh*t Laz can steal.

I need a pet name and Lazzy-poo doesn't fit the bill.

[fritz the cat]

On the point of wether hes more powerful with ramos or levi, I think you gotta think about what each of them normally already take, and if they have abilities you want to assimilate rather than what they can take. If youre taking models just for abilities to assimilate I think you're weakening yourself but if its already something you want its a matter of getting more icing on your cake. On that point it seems like ramos would be better as levi can make use of so many other good things that arent necessarily constructs

[Twisted Metal]

On that point it seems like ramos would be better as levi can make use of so many other good things that arent necessarily constructs

And yet the vast majority of my Levi lists are construct heavy. I tend to stick with constructs because I have more need for scrap counters and corpse counters are normally available.

I think Laz will be the most beneficial when he is included in a strong construct list as opposed to having the list built around him. For instance if my list dosent call for a a SSMiner im not going to take one just so I can bury Laz.

[Sandwich]

On the point of wether hes more powerful with ramos or levi, I think you gotta think about what each of them normally already take, and if they have abilities you want to assimilate rather than what they can take. If youre taking models just for abilities to assimilate I think you're weakening yourself but if its already something you want its a matter of getting more icing on your cake. On that point it seems like ramos would be better as levi can make use of so many other good things that arent necessarily constructs

Adding to Twisted Metal's statement.

The thing with (0)Assimilate is that it is the icing on the cake, his Grenade Launcher (And the flippin' melee trigger too) are the bare bones of why he's so damn powerful.

Cb 6 with 2/3:blast/4:blast:blast is just so incredibly murdery and vicious that he's auto-include in Seamus lists and even Dreamer Lists because of his sheer firepower.

Lazarus is the most powerful 8-9 point Minion in the game, hands down.

He's hardly card dependant, he's tanky, he can be mobile, and he's a hard counter to almost all Constructs in game.

The real bones of my question; Ramos or Leveticus comes from; What's more powerful, Lazarus with Use Soulstone from Ramos, or Lazarus with the capabilities of literally ANY other construct in game when under Leveticus?

[fritz the cat]

Adding to Twisted Metal's statement.

The thing with (0)Assimilate is that it is the icing on the cake, his Grenade Launcher (And the flippin' melee trigger too) are the bare bones of why he's so damn powerful.

Cb 6 with 2/3:blast/4:blast:blast is just so incredibly murdery and vicious that he's auto-include in Seamus lists and even Dreamer Lists because of his sheer firepower.

Lazarus is the most powerful 8-9 point Minion in the game, hands down.

He's hardly card dependant, he's tanky, he can be mobile, and he's a hard counter to almost all Constructs in game.

The real bones of my question; Ramos or Leveticus comes from; What's more powerful, Lazarus with Use Soulstone from Ramos, or Lazarus with the capabilities of literally ANY other construct in game when under Leveticus?

Well put.

The only times i can think of where you wouldnt atleast consider him in a crew is if the crew was incredibly minion-type dependant (ie spirits/undead/etc) Any other time I'd be hard pressed not to consider it. He's already got my seamus crew shivering in anticipation

[Tograth]

Take him with ramos and either coryphee or mechanical rider.

from Coryphee you can assimilate Mercurial, fast, subconscious actions. either + on defense and resist flips, fast, or up to 3 different (0) actions a turn.

from the rider you can assimilate nimble, immune to influence, or just take its power cycle ability altogether.

[Necromorph]

I would still say he's much better with Ramos.

Sure, you can have a bigger selection of Construcs with Levi, but Levi has less access to cheap, replaceable Scrap than Ramos, as he needs SPA's for Desolation Engines, and he can't just blow his own models up for fun/scrap, nor can he flat out summon something, it has to be off of a counter or killing an enemy.

Even if you said, "Hey, well I'll just take things like LSPArachnids, and kill them off," you're still wasting points on the same stuff Ramos would take, thus influencing how many variations of different Constructs you could have.

Also, like I said earlier, you could just take him with Ramos and a SSminer, assimilate the ability to bury, melee master, and use SS, and he's pretty much better offensively and defensively than any of the henchmen, though he wouldn't have their utility I suppose.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Necromorph

[Dustcrusher]

I need a pet name and Lazzy-poo doesn't fit the bill.

'Rus, perhaps? Added bonus that it confuses 40k players.

[TimeLapse]

The real bones of my question; Ramos or Leveticus comes from; What's more powerful, Lazarus with Use Soulstone from Ramos, or Lazarus with the capabilities of literally ANY other construct in game when under Leveticus?

The answer for me is ramos because Leveticus is limited since he also can't bring guilds models with the laz bot also there is more then just use soul stones that the laz bot can get from ramos, you could go casting expert and grab e. Fire or arcing screen depending on what you need. Pneumatic grip is a fun trigger to get as well. Counterspell is awesome to have vs magic heavy lists. Perfect machine would be useful as well vs anti construct models... its a whole load of possablity just from ramos himself.