Spec Forces restriction & exceptions

[CannonFodder]

I know I'm beating a dead cat here, but I was building a new list and found another question about spec forces restrictions.

Does Hamlin (non-master merc) ability to bring and Ht1 models let him bring conflicting Spec forces. Ie in a VonSchill crew can he let Hamlin bring a Gremlin (KIN)?

Whenever someone gets around to answering these question please include this one. Below is the short list of other Spec forces questions I saw in these forums

• Can you summon a model with Spec Forces (A) into a force containing Spec Forces (?
  
  
• Can Zoraida hire Spec Forces (dolls) after she hires a different Spec Forces in her crew due to the description in the rule book (Text: In addition...)?
  
  
• Can Ramos hire Spec Forces (MSU Assets) after she hires a different Spec Forces in his crew due to the description in the rule book (Text: In addition...)?
  
  
• If you do not have a model that lets you hire more than 2 Spec Forces models can you summon a Spec forces model if you already have 2 or more Spec Force models.
  

[Issalbotproto]

When in doubt build your list using

http://malifaux.com/Crew.php

as for your first and forth bullet are currently being discussed by th RM

[CannonFodder]

When in doubt build your list using

http://malifaux.com/Crew.php

as for your first and forth bullet are currently being discussed by th RM

I tried to use the crew creator around Vikis and Hamelins, and it does not let me bring gremlins, and I can't find rule blocking me from bringing them. I don't thing the crew creator factors in Hamelins ability, so using that as a way of confirming a ruling does not work.

[nilus]

Hamelin's Bully ability is a may hire.

Viki For the Money can only hire models with the Mercenary trait.

So Viki trumps Hamelin on this one.

[Fading Memory]

Hamelin's Bully ability is a may hire.

Viki For the Money can only hire models with the Mercenary trait.

So Viki trumps Hamelin on this one.

I have to agree with this one. Hamelin's ability is part of the crew creator. If you bring him with a master that doesn't have hiring restrictions, it shows you all the models you can bring. Not being allowed to bring a Gremlin with with the Viks is not a matter of the Rules Manuel, but a matter of a character ability.

[CannonFodder]

Fair enough, So Hamelins ability can't be used in any Outcast list in any circumstances since both Vonschills & Vikis have the same restrictions and he can't be hired in any other outcast crew.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Pretty much. Outcasts are not really double master brawl types.

[CannonFodder]

Pretty much. Outcasts are not really double master brawl types.

its a scrap, not a brawl list. Its the non-master hamelin.

[Issalbotproto]

the Can in "For Money" overrides the may in "Growing influence" sorry cap'n

however in a brawl he would be able to hire as normal because the "For Money" part that prevents it is only for scraps.

[Calmdown]

When in doubt build your list using

http://malifaux.com/Crew.php

as for your first and forth bullet are currently being discussed by th RM

No. Absolutely no. A webapp does not trump the rulebook and cards...

As far as your first question goes; I don't believe that the question of 'can you summon a new spec force into a crew that already contains a spec force'. There's a big discussion on it somewhere here that was never ruled on. The wording in the book is ambiguous; personally my take is that you can't do it using precedent from Rare, but I understand the arguments that were made against this too.

As far as question two and three; no, a crew may never contain more than one named special force. The fact that they can hire more than 2 models doesn't make that restriction go away.

For question 4, if they are the same special force as the one you already have, then of course yes you can. If it's a different special force, then that would depend on the answer to question 1.

Messy.

[Q'iq'el]

I'd just add that the issue may get, in some situations, more complex than the webapp would suggest.

You may be prohibited from hiring and still be able to summon something during the game.

Special Forces rule does two things - allow player to hire up to two models of this characteristic per master and ban the crew from containing models from more than one Special Force.

IMHO that means you can summon models from the same Special Forces (if you are capable to, like Nicodem for example is) and have more than 2 models in play. The limitation here affects only the hiring process.

On the other hand you cannot successfully summon model from another Special Force, because the rule prohibits the crew from containing more than one Special Force - it's not just at the start of the game, or during hiring, but at any time.