Evolving Abilities into Higher Forms

[Mr_Smigs]

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25763

wait...

I get that armor Stacks (game term)

but, does that make it a new ability?

Does Armor (+2) and Armor (+1) evolve into Armor (+3)

or is it still Armor (+2) and Armor (+1) giving a combined result of a +3...

really, this matters for if a model it hit by an effect that ends a limited number of effects on the model.

If a model has Armor (+2) and Armor (+1) ... do you have to be able to end 2 effects to cancel both,

or just the ability to end one effect (Armor)?

[Sliver Chocobo]

You get armour +3

I belive this counts with armour and magical resistance as well

Say you had armour +1 and magical resistance +1, and your hit by a spell you have armour +2 against that spell

[Mr_Smigs]

so, if something ignores armor, it ignores magic resistance and object because they all have the same end result?

something seems odd there...

[Sliver Chocobo]

so, if something ignores armor, it ignores magic resistance and object because they all have the same end result?

something seems odd there...

Magical resistance give you armour against spells

So yeh if it ignores armour it ignores Magical resistance

It might be the same with bullet-proof and evasive but I don't know the wording to them

But not object, that's different.

[Scurry]

object is not armour its a characteristic.

if something ignores armour it will ignore bulletproof, magic resistance, evasive etc. as well since they all say "Armour +#"

[Mr_Smigs]

hmm... so they do....

so, If a model has Bulletproof 1, and a spell gives it Armor 1,

then the powers evolve into Armor 2 vs Ranged and Melee?

[Sliver Chocobo]

hmm... so they do....

so, If a model has Bulletproof 1, and a spell gives it Armor 1,

then the powers evolve into Armor 2 vs Ranged and Melee?

No, you have Armour 1 and bulletproof 1, but the moment you get targeted by a ranged attack, you have armour 2 against that ranged attack

[sephiroa]

hmm... so they do....

so, If a model has Bulletproof 1, and a spell gives it Armor 1,

then the powers evolve into Armor 2 vs Ranged and Melee?

no, it evolves in armor +1 for melee

and armor +2 for ranged attacks

[Mr_Smigs]

so, then, back to that original thread,

if Multiple sources of the Same Ability do not become a single ability,

why do they imply that you can copy multiple abilities with a single use?

[FearLord]

so, then, back to that original thread,

if Multiple sources of the Same Ability do not become a single ability,

why do they imply that you can copy multiple abilities with a single use?

If you had armor and bullet proof on the same model, you couldn't copy them both at once (even though they would resolve as stacked armor vs ranged attacks) - you could only copy the "armor" ability or the "Bullet proof" ability - at whatever number it had reached on the model...

[Dracomax]

basicly, what I'm hearing is that you have an effective armor total, and an actual armor total--

the efective armor total would be what you get when you add up all the stacking abilities that are applicable to the situation--i.e. magic resistant1,+armor3+bulletproof2=Effective armor of 6 against the attack if it's a ranged magic that doesn't ignore armor.

whereas the actual score is just those stacks of the same name--Armor2 +armor3=armor5, bulletproof 2+bulletproof3 =bulletproof5, etc.

Is this more or less what the consensus is?

[FearLord]

Is this more or less what the consensus is?

Yes. Armor is what it is. Other abilities generate additional armor as an effect when a model is targeted by a particular type of attack. As armor is an ongoing ability with a #, it always stacks with itself, so when this new armor is generated by the effect, it is added together for the resolution of the attack.

Edited October 12, 2011 by FearLord

[nilus]

Magic Resistance, bullet proof, Evasion are all armor for specific effects. So ignoring armor ignores them.

Object is different however as its goes against wounds inflected which happens after armor is taken into effect

[Mr_Smigs]

it is added together for the resolution of the attack.

so, armor from multiple sources is added together at resolution? not before?

[FearLord]

so, armor from multiple sources is added together at resolution? not before?

Multiple sources of the 'Armor#' ability are always stacked together, as are multiple sources of 'Bulletproof#', etc. These other abilities have the effect of adding to the 'Armor ability at resolution.

So for example:

A model has 'Armor 2' naturally. It gains from separate abilities +4 Armor and Bulletproof +2. The model's armor is now 'Armor 6' and this is one ability that could be copied. 'Bulletproof 2' could also be copied. When resolving a ranged attack against the model, 'Bullet proof 2' provides the effect of +2 armor to the model, so it would have 'Armor 8' for the duration of the attack.

Edited October 12, 2011 by FearLord

[Ratty]

each effect with a different name that grants armor would be an individual effect and they would total when your resolving damage.

eg... a Moleman would have Armor +1 and a Dug In effect.. so when you take damage you would have Armor +4.. but at any other point they would be an effect and an ability. So if you had a way of copying one thing off the Moleman you could choose Armor +1 or Dug In, not the entire Armor +4 stack.

[Mr_Smigs]

are:

Armor (+3)

and Armor (+1)

considered different names?

are they considered different abilities if both are present on the model?

[Ratty]

are:

Armor (+3)

and Armor (+1)

considered different names?

are they considered different abilities if both are present on the model?

Can you give a situation where a model has both on their card. It should never happen.

[Zengar]

Can you give a situation where a model has both on their card. It should never happen.

The mechanical Rider (going by the book, the model hasn't made it to the LGS yet) has Armor +1 as a basic ability and gains Armor +3 when in the Powering Down Stage of Power Cycle

[Ratty]

In which case the Armor +3 is granted by an effect generated by the Power Cycle. So the model would have Armor +1 and the Power Cycle effect on it, which would give it Armor +4 in damage resolution.

A model should never have more than one Armor +# ability on the card, all other Armor modifiers will come from one effect or another.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Ratty