Vik Manifest replacement question

[TimeLapse]

Right here is the question I have,

I completed one of my manifest requirements on turn one, at the start of turn two I activate my two victorias, the first one goes and uses the all action to manifest.

I 1st Remove from game all totems attached to my Victorias

2nd I discard all tokens and game effects on my Victorias

3rd I replace the un-activated Victoria with my avatar and remove the one that took the all manifest action from the game. The Avatar take on any wounds that my viks had up to 10 in total.

4th I choose to make a healing flip

5th I replace my stat cards with the new ones and I continue activating my Victorias. Since the replace model is the one that did not use any AP this turn, using the replacement rules my avatar should come into the game without any spent AP, since the Victoria that spent any AP was not replaced but instead removed from game.

Is this right? And if so does my Avatar activate now or do I need to wait to activate it this turn?

-Andrew

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Looks legitimate for getting second activation Ryle state you are replacing one and removing other so as long as you replace the unactivated you should be fine.

As for going right after, you could only do that if you companions them before manifesting. Replaced model is separate from the removed vik. Unless it was companion chained it hadn't already activated and so it would not be continuing its activation.

[Dracomax]

Looks legitimate for getting second activation Ryle state you are replacing one and removing other so as long as you replace the unactivated you should be fine.

As for going right after, you could only do that if you companions them before manifesting. Replaced model is separate from the removed vik. Unless it was companion chained it hadn't already activated and so it would not be continuing its activation.

that's...wrong. Avatars use big "r" Replace.

RM Pg 38 states "The Replacing model(s) continue the activation using any general AP the replaced model(s) had remaining.

[Buhallin]

that's...wrong. Avatars use big "r" Replace.

RM Pg 38 states "The Replacing model(s) continue the activation using any general AP the replaced model(s) had remaining.

His point is that one Vik is currently activating (A) and the other has not activated yet this turn (. Since the model being replaced isn't actually the one activating, it should have its turn as normal.

But I don't think you could activate it immediately even if you had Companion'ed it, because you remove all game effects. I don't think we've ever looked at whether simultaneous activation counts as an effect that can be removed, but my guess would be that it is.

[Necromorph]

We were discussing this last week with spider swarms, the swarm gets AP = to the average ap remaining between all models being sacced/replaced. So...damn, that's a tough one, huh? What would she have left...melee master and 1 general ap as her avatar?

[Buhallin]

Don't have the exact wording handy - is it a replace multiple, or a replace this one and sacrifice the other?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

The key is one is replaced and one is removed it is quite a simple answer. Different from spiders so not comparable. As for the companion that I am not 100% but my guess is it is not an effect and so would not be removed.

[TimeLapse]

Don't have the exact wording handy - is it a replace multiple, or a replace this one and sacrifice the other?

The wording is this,

"Replace one Viktoria with Viktorias, avatars of slaughter. Remove the other Viktoria from the game. Apply all wounds suffered by both viktorias..."

So its replace one and remove from play the other.

[TimeLapse]

I was just thinking would it matter eather way? If only one is replace as the book suggest that you would get 2 ap if you choose the model that has on used any ap to replace.

If the rule is ment for both to be counted as being replaced then you would still get 2 ap. The replace rule does say you get any remaining unspent gen ap from the model(s) you replace that being the case you get 0 ap from the all action vik and 2 ap from the other.

Am I right?

[Necromorph]

If that is the case, then you would replace the vik that didn't take the all action and you would still have full ap, because the one that hasnt done anything is replaced....so you would have full ap with the AoS.

Every part of their manifest says "A Viktoria". So a vik can take the manifest action and then a viktoria is replaced and continues as normal per replaced rules....I.e. the one that takes the action does not have to be the one replaced, and the replaced rules only effect the specific vik that was actually replaced.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Correct so if you replace the one that manifests then continue activation (unless it was all action). If you replace one that is not activated you will activate later. So it is important as to which one you replace and which one you remove.

[Necromorph]

Right.

I wonder though, if you companion them would the unused Vik (which would now be the Avatar) still get to activate right away?

[Adran]

Page 38 Replacement

My reading of this is as follows

Companion the two Viks

Vik A activates, generates 2 AP.

Does an all action, manifesting the Avatar. If she replaces Vik B, she has 0 action points as Vik B has yet to generate any.

After the replacement The Avatar will continue the activation with any action points.

The rules state the replacing models continue the activation

The complicated thing is that we aren't replacing the currently activatied model, but that doesn't seem to matter.

The converse issue is that if you manifest later in the game for a (1) or (0) action and replace the unactivated Vik, then it has 0 Ap, even if the acting model still has 1 or 2 remaining.

Its very intesting to see the discussion in two places has gone 2 very different ways.

Looking forward to seeing the correct result.