edonil Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) See, I'm just thinking in terms of getting Seamus' Avatar out early. Turn one, Face of Death, plus other stuff. Turn two, Face of Death, Nurse gives Reactivate, and then you Avatar, so that in turn 3, Seamus is at full AP and in Avatar of Dread mode. Also works for Kirai, but I'm still not super in love with the Avatar of Vengeance... Edited September 23, 2011 by edonil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Avatar of Dread is more of a mid to late game Avatar I feel personally. You want to try to take out their biggest melee threat first of you can. Seamus' Def is so low that without his H2W he will almost always take severe dmg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Really? I think it'll depend on what you're playing against...if there's a lot of stuff susceptible to Terror on the other side of the board, (ie, living) then getting everything with Terrifying and Seamus' bonus to Terror out sooner will be a boon, because it gives you some more board control. But we'll see, I've only played three games with Seamus, and while I like the abilities he has as the Mad Hatter, Avatar of Dread seems to be more flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haystacks Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I dont think its worth rushing to get him out. his conditions are going to be met anyway in the game so dont stress doing them. The avatar forms are not (this is hard to describe) generally better. More powerful, but not better as you strengths and weaknesses change. EG un avatar he has high wp and a good ranged strike. Post manifest you are rellying on melee. so unless your allready amongst the opposing crew theres no point hulking out. my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm not sure I agree. If you are going to Avatar, your list will reflect that, and be prepared to both take advantage of, and make up for, the change in play style. If you're writing a list with the intention of going Avatar turn two, then your tactics will go with that. While I think that Avatars can be used to change things up midgame, they can also be used early on to heavily impact the game. Honestly, with the low CB of the Flintlock, I don't find it all that impressive, especially when compared with Avatar of Dread's melee attack. It's a playstyle and a situational thing. Sometimes it will be good to Avatar early, and sometimes it won't. Personally, I don't want Seamus going Avatar in the middle of combat, because it means I'll be wasting part of his action while he's in danger to perform the Avatar activation. If I do it the turn beforehand, he's not in the thick of it while he's more vulnerable to damage, and he'll be able to fully utilize all of his abilities as I pick the location and timing of the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 My personal view is that in Seamus' case his Avatar is almost auto include and you don't need to construct his list to tailor to it as his form helps fill the Melee hole Seamus crews tend to suffer. Also Seamus' Avatar form is VERY fragile. The earlier you manifest the harder it will be to keep him alive. Especially since his only real defensive ability is his Armor, and he only gets it while he is in Melee. It will be hard to keep him in Melee from turn 2 or three to the end of the game. Also, in Seamus' case I feel you are wasting his basic abilities if you are just racing to get to manifest. I like to fulfill the requirements as I can, but only manifest when it is in the best tactical position to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alviaran Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Looking at the discussion, since the Crooked tends to be a common choice with Seamus for some people thanks to him taking the Belles anyway, what about the Dead Rider as a melee monster? Dead Rider can Drag Along any enemy and plop them next to a Shafted Marker as well. Scythe strike, Shafted damage and another potential strike (if you adjust his purpose into Fast or Melee Expert) About how many stones do people recommend having for Seamus? More particularly, what about his Avatar form? Given his heavy combat focus, I was thinking wanting to have some extras for prevention and winning those melee duels if one is intending to go for his Avatar (whether they gun for it or not). I was thinking of building this: Seamus (w/ Avatar) -Grave Spirit Sybelle Rotten Belles x2 Dead Rider Crooked Man Leaves 4 left before his cache. Can spend those on a Necropunk for objectives, a Drowned (I like the look of them), another Crooked Man or just save them for hulking out later in the game. I also like the idea of the Dead Rider potentially dragging targets to Seamus once he goes Avatar form if there is nothing inside his reach as well. The Grave Spirit is to try to make the Dead Rider fairly difficult to kill, especially between all of his other survival abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Looking at the discussion, since the Crooked tends to be a common choice with Seamus for some people thanks to him taking the Belles anyway, what about the Dead Rider as a melee monster? Dead Rider can Drag Along any enemy and plop them next to a Shafted Marker as well. Scythe strike, Shafted damage and another potential strike (if you adjust his purpose into Fast or Melee Expert) About how many stones do people recommend having for Seamus? More particularly, what about his Avatar form? Given his heavy combat focus, I was thinking wanting to have some extras for prevention and winning those melee duels if one is intending to go for his Avatar (whether they gun for it or not). I was thinking of building this: Seamus (w/ Avatar) -Grave Spirit Sybelle Rotten Belles x2 Dead Rider Crooked Man Leaves 4 left before his cache. Can spend those on a Necropunk for objectives, a Drowned (I like the look of them), another Crooked Man or just save them for hulking out later in the game. I also like the idea of the Dead Rider potentially dragging targets to Seamus once he goes Avatar form if there is nothing inside his reach as well. The Grave Spirit is to try to make the Dead Rider fairly difficult to kill, especially between all of his other survival abilities. No idea why people run Sybelle or Crooked Men. Both are terrible models compared to what's out there; things like Desperate Mercs, Punk Zombies, and Night Terrors just blow them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I haven't been in anyway impressed by Night Terrors Calmdown. Who are you running them with and how are they rocking for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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