Plastic Kits?

[Cambrius]

I've only checked the last five pages for this topic, so forgive me if I'm repeating a question.

I've had the debate with friends and sundry many times concerning the virtues of metal vs. plastic, and in the end I just feel that, whatever their drawbacks, plastic minis are better to work with - at least, in the way I work with them.

So, is there any likelihood of seeing plastic versions of the minis in the future? Is that something for way down the road... or at all?

:withstupi

[Bleeding Through]

Its a possibility. Certainly worth maybe making plastic starter sets. Though for now a lot of people prefer the metals, myself included

[011121]

I've been enormously impressed with GW's recent plastic sets (except of course for the costs, it is GW after all). I have no idea if the skills involved in creating metal miniatures are directly applicable to making plastic minis but I'd very very much prefer plastic if Wyrd can maintain the same quality.

[Sliver Chocobo]

No!

[Ciaran]

I have no idea if the skills involved in creating metal miniatures are directly applicable to making plastic minis but I'd very very much prefer plastic if Wyrd can maintain the same quality.

The sculpting can apply directly. The deal with plastics is they're often sculpted in "three up" form. They're three times normal size, then often digitally mapped, and that file is used to cut the mold. This process used to be done exclusively through mechanical reduction, all of those 1/72 plastic kits from decades ago were done that way, and the Perry's have their molds cut this way. There is a company that does their entire process digitally, so that is possible. My understanding is that even for three up work there is often a lot of digital work after the mapping. It certainly makes sense with needing to lay out the mold.

I think the Wyrd style would translate well into plastics, sometimes. I could see compelling arguments either way. I'd LOVE to see accessories sprues, and the models that you need LOTS of (Mindless Zombies) done this way. The biggest complaint about plastics is usually weight, and I won't try to argue that.

[Vinncent]

I've only checked the last five pages for this topic, so forgive me if I'm repeating a question.

I've had the debate with friends and sundry many times concerning the virtues of metal vs. plastic, and in the end I just feel that, whatever their drawbacks, plastic minis are better to work with - at least, in the way I work with them.

So, is there any likelihood of seeing plastic versions of the minis in the future? Is that something for way down the road... or at all?

:withstupi

I hope not!

[Sliver Chocobo]

There's far too fans many against this idea, for it to be put into practice

[Regnak]

WE FEAR CHANGE!

Leave things as they are! I'm happy with adding some resin parts but we don't need to change things.

Wow.. I used alot of:

[Extro]

If there was intrinsic value to the metal I might think otherwise, but white metal is rubbish, worthless except on the manufacturing scale.

My vote will always go with whatever material is easiest to work with on my end. In particular that means ease of drilling, cutting, gluing, durability once constructed and ease of positioning while in play. Metal fails all of those tests, and in my eyes that's too much to pay for feeling better in the hand.

[Vinncent]

Please, do not do so as Privateer Press and GW!

:no::no::no:

[Cambrius]

You know what would be awesome? Having lines of both metal and plastic minis. Exactly the same design, or as close as translates in the medium. Scale back the number of metal minis and fill the hole with plastics. Or, given the current popularity, just add plastic minis to the supply side.

I understand metal minis have very loyal adherents. I can't in fairness declaim any subjective arguments why it is preferred. Although simply screaming no doesn't count as an argument. :

But for me, I have found plastics are easier to paint, easier to glue, easier to modify.

It seems like a dead easy way to satisfy both sides: just make both. Eh? Yeah.

:thumb:

[flightmek25]

Forget both metal AND plastic! We want over-priced and poorly made resin casts. They can can call it "Wyrd Finecast" and indiscriminately raise the prices of everything in the product line!

In all seriousness, I feel you, Cambrius. I too am a "plastic is easier to chop up and glue back together" sorta guy, but I have to be honest - now that I have worked more with metal models, I am liking them more than I used to. Having said that, I will admit that I have done zero conversion work with it. I've painted more of them in recent months than I used to, but that's all. Plastic has a lot of advantages, but metal seems to be the fan-favorite. On a personal note, I think I will try some greenstuff/metal bits conversions in the near-future.

[Cambrius]

Just to be clear, I don't actually dislike metal minis, I just like how plastic works better. I think the recent catalyst for this question is the realisation that I have to be particularly careful with storing works in progress for the simple reason that the metal more weighty than resilient. Like the Judge I just did... his hand/weapon/chain attachment isn't strong enough to withstand being laid against. The mini is heavy enough to bend the blade and chain, or to break the glue seal, even after curing. Perhaps it's just his particular pose causing the issue. Regardless, it would be a non-issue with the lighter plastic.

I will, however, join Silver Chocobo in screaming no (and expletives) should Wyrd ever develop a Forgeworld-style subsidiary. Not that I see that happening.

[011121]

If there was intrinsic value to the metal I might think otherwise, but white metal is rubbish, worthless except on the manufacturing scale.

My vote will always go with whatever material is easiest to work with on my end. In particular that means ease of drilling, cutting, gluing, durability once constructed and ease of positioning while in play. Metal fails all of those tests, and in my eyes that's too much to pay for feeling better in the hand.

That's pretty much how I feel. If you want weight you can always add some to the base.

[Copernicus]

Say what you will about GW and their business practices but their plastic kits are amazing. If any company could get that same level of quality I would say switch to it.

However, I am not a fan of PP plastic kits. Preferring plastic I was already to jump on the bandwagon but after working with their stuff for a while, I determined personally, I did not like them.

If done properly plastic is the way to go, however, it appears that is easier said than done.

on that note, I really dislike resin. I'm one that loves to customize and I find resin the hardest to work with. (not to forget to mention resin dust is bad for you).

[redben]

I prefer working with plastic. The problem for a game like Malifaux is that plastic is extremely expensive to set up but then once it is it's very cheap to mass manufacture. That makes it ideal for minis which you're going to sell a lot of. Check out Mantic for a great example, their big unit models are plastic, their characters and small unit models are resin or metal. Malifaux has no big units which doesn't make it cost effective to produce in plastic.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Just to be clear, I don't actually dislike metal minis, I just like how plastic works better. I think the recent catalyst for this question is the realisation that I have to be particularly careful with storing works in progress for the simple reason that the metal more weighty than resilient. Like the Judge I just did... his hand/weapon/chain attachment isn't strong enough to withstand being laid against. The mini is heavy enough to bend the blade and chain, or to break the glue seal, even after curing. Perhaps it's just his particular pose causing the issue. Regardless, it would be a non-issue with the lighter plastic.

I will, however, join Silver Chocobo in screaming no (and expletives) should Wyrd ever develop a Forgeworld-style subsidiary. Not that I see that happening.

So do a lot of people

More seriously metal is more expensive than plastic and if wyrd started plastic, they might end up making bigger unit model. Taking away why most of use love Malifaux

[flightmek25]

I prefer working with plastic. The problem for a game like Malifaux is that plastic is extremely expensive to set up but then once it is it's very cheap to mass manufacture. That makes it ideal for minis which you're going to sell a lot of. Check out Mantic for a great example, their big unit models are plastic, their characters and small unit models are resin or metal. Malifaux has no big units which doesn't make it cost effective to produce in plastic.

More seriously metal is more expensive than plastic and if wyrd started plastic, they might end up making bigger unit model. Taking away why most of use love Malifaux

You guys bring up a great point, a fact that is likely the reason behind no-plastics from Wyrd. And I totally agree with the both of you. If Malifaux becomes an amass your army type of game, I am out. It's great as it stands now.

[Guild Monkee]

I agreed that plastic is easier to work with and grat for converting but it just feels wrong on the table, I like the heft of a metal mini. There is always the option (like the nightmare teddie) to offer minis with multiple head/limb options to allow for crews that look more individual.

[dsmiles]

I don't think I'd argue against plastic/resin models. They're easier to cut and glue for more posing options.

But honestly, I like the fact that Wyrd sells all metal minis. I grew up on metal minis (though they were lead-based at the time), and things that can be cast as one piece, Wyrd casts as one piece (not like the damn 4 piece forsaken model from PP). I also have to agree that plastic/resin minis just feel so fragile.

[Cambrius]

Almost one piece... that sword arm on the Judge took awhile.

[dsmiles]

No disagreement here. Mine took forever to get on just right.

OTOH, I really don't think that the Judge could have been cast as one piece. That sword sticks out awfully far.

[CannonFodder]

I played confrontation when it went from metal to plastic, and they tried to translate the game from a skirmish to an army based game and they killed it.

Rules to follow

1) Don't change the rules to make plastic the more economical choice.

2) Keep making larger models in plastic. I recall when the price of metal started to rise, and my Rackham Orc Beheamoth Warriors of stone came in and I was expecting to pay 35-40$ for it, and they costed me over 60$. It didn't make my day. FYI, they are about 40 MM tall and solid metal.

3) Don't make models huge just for the sake of making them huge cheap and plastic. One thing some people like about Malifaux is the fact that they don't need to carry giant boxes to carry their crews. I know a couple people who pick their crews because they fit in the small box here. I can fit up to 18 figs in one box (Collodi crew).

[Maniple]

I have another concern about moving from metal to resin. I have noticed that the GW finecast resin is not quite as tough as metal, so thin stuff like sword blades, pointing fingers, etc... are more likely to snap off. At least with metal they are more inclined to bend if dropped rather than come off. A metal sword can be bent back into place- good luck doing that with a resin piece.

[nilus]

I think all three materials have there place. The reason a lot of new companies go with Metal is because its has a cheaper start up cost. Plastic requires a lot of up front cost. Once that is paid though Plastic is in theory easier to produce but then detail suffers.

Ideally I think I would be okay if Wyrd moved some of there larger mech and monsters over to plastic but keep there human sized models metal. The bigger models can get away with less detail but the human sizes ones suffer.