Guild Guard heavy lists?

[Koschai]

So I'm mainly a Neverborn player with a fair investment in Outcasts but I've been going back and reading through the background and getting a taste for maybe starting up the Guild. I dont know much about Guild though so thought I'd come here to ask...

I really like Samael Hopkins so am thinking Sonia as the master, however I am thinking I'd love to do a theme based heavily with Guild Guards, Austringers, Guild Hounds etc. Maybe the Guild Captain or... can something like this be competitive and what would it play like?

As a note, I have 5 masters (plus 2 henchmen but am suprisingly still pretty inexperienced with the game as I collect more than play) with multiple options including Lilith grow lists and Pandora F* You lists so am not feeling the need for it to be ultra tournament competitive but would like to be able to hold my own against my most common opponents Ressers.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Sonia and Lucius are a viable duo. Sonia probably has the least synergy with her crew than all other guild masters. So throwing Lucius for a guard heavy force would work great but is definitely not fluffy. Lucius and Sonia are probably one of the cooleat combos, but is only really viable at 35+ss.

[Koschai]

Thanks. So picking up the Lucius and Sonia boxes along with a guild guard and guild hound pack with a couple of packs of Austringers should come in at a reasonable $ investment and would give me enough to field a couple of variant lists depending on objectives and opponent.

What do you think?

[Koschai]

okay thanks. I was sort of fixated on a master as I picked up Von Schill but found it very hard going until I picked up the Viks to support him and was concerned that Lucius on his own would be equally troubling.

Still while I like playing bigger 35 point games I have to say I find my opponents regularly pushing for something smaller.

I do rather like the idea of Samael Hopkins though but if I'm right couldn't take him with Lucius unless I had a master (due to special forces limitations etc) so the extra box isn't that big an investment (I come from a GW 40k background!).

[hijynx]

Lucius by himself is great. Pairing him with Lady J and a mob of Guards and Austringers can make for some devastating alpha strike turns.

[Pipeline]

Ive been toying with

Criid

7 cache

Luscious

4 dog

3 guard

[Koschai]

So would a 20ss list:

Lucius (1ss cache)

Drill Sgt

Guild Guard Captain

Austringer

2 Guild Guards

Expanding up to a total of 3 Guards, with a 2nd Austringer and 2 Hounds at 35ss's be a competitive (in friendly games, not talking tournament cutthroat) list? Accepting you can tweak based on mission etc but as a baseline for what models I'd be looking to buy.

Thanks

[Pipeline]

Looks good.

Luscious Box

2x austringer

2 or 4 dogs

2x guard

drill sarge

and then once the warden comes out you'll be looking for a few of thems.

That about covers it.

This gives you all your options.

[96p]

So would a 20ss list:

Lucius (1ss cache)

Drill Sgt

Guild Guard Captain

Austringer

2 Guild Guards

Expanding up to a total of 3 Guards, with a 2nd Austringer and 2 Hounds at 35ss's be a competitive (in friendly games, not talking tournament cutthroat) list? Accepting you can tweak based on mission etc but as a baseline for what models I'd be looking to buy.

Thanks

2 Austringers are kinda "tournament cutthroat"

[Stern]

2 Austringers are kinda "tournament cutthroat"

austringers ain't bad they are just a pest! I find it more fun and challenging not using then with Lucius (since he is better where the action is making people hit harder next to lady J

[Fetid Strumpet]

If you want to go guild guard heavy you might want to consider Lady J + Avatar. You can mix and match Lucius in as well.

If you listen to the most recent Gamer Lounge podcast Nix has a good deal of useful insight on how Avatar Lady J works well with guild guards.

[Koschai]

Thanks guy's your really talking me into picking up a whole bunch of Lucius stuff

With regards a master I have some concerns that just a henchman cant compete after having a tough time with Von Schill without the Viks, however you all make good arguments. I'm looking at starting small around 20ss but as I get bigger might also grab a master (especially so I can use for Brawls).

I'm hesitant to use Lady J as she is very common locally and I prefer the idea of Sonia, though her Avatar might push me past that (good podcast episode btw). Plus my most common opponents are Ressers and my regular opponent is pretty pessemistic whenever facing or even talking about a Lady J crew.

For now though I'm thinking kick off a 20ss Lucius crew and see where I go from there. Damn but Malifaux is addictive!

[huntroll]

2 Austringers are kinda "tournament cutthroat"

Yeah, a crew lead by Lucius with 2 Austringers is almost as tournament cutthroat as a Ramos or Marcus crew with Book 1 models only...

Seriously, Lucius is one of the weakest and most overpriced Henchman, whose only saving grace is the sheer awesomeness of a crew of fascist bureacrats and cowboys... He is great for casual games, but I'd rather take Von Schill in a Guild crew for 10 points in a Guild crew if I really wanted a henchman in a tourny game.

Edited September 15, 2011 by huntroll

[Adran]

Yeah, a crew lead by Lucius with 2 Austringers is almost as tournament cutthroat as a Ramos or Marcus crew with Book 1 models only...

I agree, its a truely dangerous thing in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing with it. But if you don't use it well, then you are going to get thrashed.

Personally, I rarely use the 2 austringers with him, I find he doesn't really need it, he can get models where he needs them to be with firing lines without the need for birds flying everywhere.

[Koschai]

its a truely dangerous thing in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing with it. But if you don't use it well, then you are going to get thrashed.

That sounds like it would be true of every crew in the game! It's certainly my experience with my gamer ADD and inability to focus on any one crew...

Still I mentioned not being ultra competitive, I dont play tournaments and am not looking for the easy win button. Equally though I dont want to go into even a friendly game with my hands tied behind my back!

So I have crews people would say are great, Pandora, Collodi, Viks, etc all tournament staples, however a bunch of Guards sounds really fun and fluffy (assuming I dont just get rolled game after game because I'm combining unfamiliarity with underpowered) especially at low ss games.

[huntroll]

So I have crews people would say are great, Pandora, Collodi, Viks, etc all tournament staples, however a bunch of Guards sounds really fun and fluffy (assuming I dont just get rolled game after game because I'm combining unfamiliarity with underpowered) especially at low ss games.

Its entirely possible to win with Lucius, especially if you focus on your Strategy/Schemes, but it will be a lot more challenging than winning with your current crews. And hopefully Lucius will REALLY get some great Elite Division models in the next book... (Maybe I will be able to paint my crew until then )

[Koschai]

Which brings me back to my initial question. How challenging?

Are we talking it's challenging like a hike up a steep hill, or challenging like trying to stop a shotgun shot to the face by picking the pellets out of the air with your teeth?

I'm thinking that at a low ss level Lucius brings a hefty advantage in numbers of cheap models which he can buff to make effective making him the better choice than for example Lilith who at say 20ss can only bring a small number of models and most of her best ones are left at home.

At a higher points level (in the mature stages of an escalation league) he's going to probably suffer the downsides of other henchmen such as Von Schill in that your opponent is playing with big guns while your using the same guns you were at 20ss just maybe a couple more. Here I'm thinking you tac on Lady J or Sonia, maybe bring on the Judge or Sameal and shift the focus of the list if necessary.

Is this an accurate assessment or are you saying that Lucius is going to be a bad choice unless I'm looking to really make life hard for myself?

[Wyrrn]

I'm coming in a little late in the conversation, but don't forget that the game plays in factions, not boxed sets. If you like Samael you don't have to put him with Sonnia to use him. Use Guild with Guild, and add mercs as necessary.

Of course, there's not always synergy between the models within a faction, but I'm sure you know that.

[Dark Alleycat]

Lucius isn't bad at supporting his crew. But for the cost,the outcast Tigger is a better choice (von Schill,hes bouncy,shooty,stabby fun fun fun)

[Koschai]

The more I consider it I'm thinking that Lucius, Drill Sgt, Austringer, Guard Captain and 2 Guards make a reasonable 20ss list.

Taken up to 35ss though I'd have to go with Lady J rather than Sonia to keep the theme going and run with:

Lady J (with avatar manifesting asap)

Drill Sgt

Austringer

Guard Captain

3 Guards

2 Hounds

While perhaps not the best list to run at a tournament specifically I think its a fun and workable list for something like league play (especially as the two scale with similar models.

Yes though in more serious play I'd want some extra models to swap in to tailor slightly more specifically depending on mission and opponent.

[huntroll]

Which brings me back to my initial question. How challenging?

Are we talking it's challenging like a hike up a steep hill, or challenging like trying to stop a shotgun shot to the face by picking the pellets out of the air with your teeth?

I'm thinking that at a low ss level Lucius brings a hefty advantage in numbers of cheap models which he can buff to make effective making him the better choice than for example Lilith who at say 20ss can only bring a small number of models and most of her best ones are left at home.

At a higher points level (in the mature stages of an escalation league) he's going to probably suffer the downsides of other henchmen such as Von Schill in that your opponent is playing with big guns while your using the same guns you were at 20ss just maybe a couple more. Here I'm thinking you tac on Lady J or Sonia, maybe bring on the Judge or Sameal and shift the focus of the list if necessary.

Is this an accurate assessment or are you saying that Lucius is going to be a bad choice unless I'm looking to really make life hard for myself?

Well, you won't stand much chance against ultra-competetive lists (Alp Spam and stuff light that), but you are right about his usefulness in lower SS games, and most cheese lists require more points to work well.

You are also right about LadyJ in bigger games, they make a decent combo. Nothing game breaking, but if you want to play for fun and have an awesome thematical list, you will like it.

[Adran]

Lucius is probably the 2nd most versitile of the henchmen when you look at what models he can hire.

Guardsmen, Austringers and Dogs are all good models and then you get to look at his special forces.

He is certainly a competative force up to the 35-40 soulstone range whilst still leading the force. Higher, and you're probably wishing you had access to other minions.

Actually, if you're using the Guild guard Captain and the Drill sergent you have quite a defense against alps.

They both have spells making models immune to slow. Ryle also will automatically pass the duel.

My list typically will have the drill sergent linked to Ryle, so I can move him out of the bomb area, and then use Atten-hun to make the guards captain and 1 other model safe. And those two models (plus Ryles shooting) is often enough to rip apart the bomb, making the rest of the crew ok.

He is also probably the most likely master to be able to kill your opponents daydreams before the bomb is dropped if their first activation isn't bombing you.

[Koschai]

All sounds great! So I picked up the Lucius box last night thanks to all the advice here. The store was out of stock of the rest of the stuff but I have on order so hope to pick up 2 Astringers, Drill Sgt and more Guards before the end of the month.

Lady J (I'll use the alt model) and her Avatar can wait until release obviously but it should take a while for the league to get up to that kind of larger point games.