Nicodem's Avatar + Mindless zombies

[Mach_5]

Mark of Decay removes the "Walking Dead" ability from nearby Mindless Zombies, so they no longer count as corpse counters.

Restless Dead says "After a non-Mindless Zombie corpse counter is placed on the table..."

So am I right that Restless Dead means that when any model except a mindless zombie is killed and drops a corpse counter it is automatically exchanged for a mindless zombie, while killing a mindless zombie will cause it to drop an actual corpse counter?

The wording is a little odd because with Mark of Decay Mindless Zombies are no longer considered Corpse Counters.

[sephiroa]

Mark of Decay removes the "Walking Dead" ability from nearby Mindless Zombies, so they no longer count as corpse counters.

Restless Dead says "After a non-Mindless Zombie corpse counter is placed on the table..."

So am I right that Restless Dead means that when any model except a mindless zombie is killed and drops a corpse counter it is automatically exchanged for a mindless zombie, while killing a mindless zombie will cause it to drop an actual corpse counter?

The wording is a little odd because with Mark of Decay Mindless Zombies are no longer considered Corpse Counters.

not considered, but they still drop one,

considered as a corpse counters means that they can be used as a corpse counter, but with aNicodem, not anymore, only when they are killed they drop one (becoming mindless once again)

[Mach_5]

Rules Marshall please... Does a mindless zombie killed near Nicodem's avatar become a corpse counter or another mindless zombie?

[Ausplosions]

Rules Marshals Really need to sort this...

[Mach_5]

Looks like this was not clarified at all on the card.

*bump*

[Q'iq'el]

Knowing Wyrd rule-writing convention, the "non mindless-zombie corpse counters" may simply be a reminder.

Mindless Zombies = no longer corpse Counters.

Corpse Counters dropped by models = not really the models themselves, so you can't say "this is a Punk Zombie Corpse and this one here a Mindless Zombie one". They are all the same.

So, speaking from experience, the rule seems to be saying:

All corpse counters in the range turn into Mindless Zombies automatically, just remember Mindless Zombies are not Corpse Counters anymore.

This is important only because otherwise (having missed MZ change) you could loop yourself with an endless respawning of Mindless Zombies (and possibly exploit it for couple inches of free movement) whenever one entered Nico's range or was created by Rafkin inside of that range.

That would also mean you cannot remove Mindless Zombies within Nico's range by directly targeting and killing them, as they would immediately respawn from the Corpse Counter they'd generate.

[Mach_5]

Unkillable mindless zombies seems kind of over powered to me (though the alternative that they become corpse counters that aNicodem can't even use seems highly under-powered).

Either way I'd like an official clarification to ensure I'm not taking an unfair advantage or needlessly under powering my own crew.

[Q'iq'el]

Unkillable mindless zombies seems kind of over powered to me (though the alternative that they become corpse counters that aNicodem can't even use seems highly under-powered).

Nah, if Nicodem uses them for Zombie Fodder, they get sacrificed and sacrificed models don't drop Corpse Counters... so it's not like you cannot get through the "Zombie shield" if you amass enough attacks.

What that rule really does is ensure the aNicodem has reasonable survivability. The mechanic for this model is to be in a real crowd of Mindless Zombies (3~9 realistically speaking). It would be possible for the opponent to simply AoE all the MZs and get Nicodem at the same time, completely bypassing the defensive mechanic of this setup.

So they made Zombies impossible to kill. You can still sacrifice them though or force Nicodem to sacrifice them.

[Mach_5]

That sounds great and you almost have me convinced, but if that were the case why does the rule not simply say "After a Corpse Counter is placed on the table..." instead of "After a non-Mindless Zombie Corpse Counter is placed...". If the answer is simple, why would a rules marshall not chime in on this long before now?

[Q'iq'el]

That sounds great and you almost have me convinced, but if that were the case why does the rule not simply say "After a Corpse Counter is placed on the table..." instead of "After a non-Mindless Zombie Corpse Counter is placed...".

For the very same reason every other unclear rule has been published - first there was a deadline to get the book out before Gencon, some rules were deemed good to go with intention to review them later and then got omitted in the review process. For one, what is muddy for you and me may not look muddy at all for people who understand the intention of the rule from even before it was written, so things simply slip through.

If the answer is simple, why would a rules marshall not chime in on this long before now?

Because they need confirmation anyway?

---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

As I said, I'm speaking only from my experience. Not the first time Wyrd's rule-writers have put a "reminder" in the rule and thus confused the entire community. In fact, if something in the rule seems confusing, from the experience, the most probable answer is "just a reminder".

But let's wait and see the ruling.

[Ratty]

"After a non-Mindless Zombie Corpse Counter is placed on the table within 6'' of this model..."

After a Corpse Counter drops from a model that is not a Mindless Zombie, Place a Mindless Zombie touching the Corpse Counter and then discard the Counter.

Mindless Zombies do not cycle like Malifaux Rats. So if someone kills Bishop, you will get a Mindless Zombie, if you kill that Zombie you will not get another one, you will just have a Corpse Counter lying on the table.

[Mach_5]

As I expected. Thanks for the clarification Ratty.

[HtUnliving]

If Ratty says so. Still,sad. This would've made Nicodem,Avatar of Decay,really good. Now he's just good.

Not steppingon your authority,Ratty,just sighing.

[Gruesome]

If Ratty says so. Still,sad. This would've made Nicodem,Avatar of Decay,really good. Now he's just good.

Not steppingon your authority,Ratty,just sighing.

He is great.

Another thing to understand that was ALSO ruled in this way was McMourning's manifest requirement. Corpses of models HE killed that he picks up and converts into BP count towards his manifest requirements. In these two scenarios the corpses keep some sort of "memory" of their source.