Jonas Albrecht Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 My book is with Tuesday, so I don't have access to the abilities verbatim, but this piece just looks overbalanced to Hell. An (All) action to boost Df until the model activates? There's some fundamental design flaw here. There aren't many situations where you'd waste an activation for a +2 Df boost that will wear off once you activate a model. Rare 3, Insignificant, can't Companion? The focus fire ability is not awful, but it doesn't do much to make up for the cement shoes this thing has been fitted with. I'm really curious about the design process behind this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 +2 Df is pretty big, and in the right situations is worth a 3ss model's whole activation. The requirement that a friendly model only benefits from it until they activate just adds to the tactical application of it, imho. The Guild player will be in a position where he will not be wanting to make an Alpha Strike with a Companioned Family. Instead, he will activate the Pistolero first and use the (all) Action. He will then try and activate Family members after they have been attacked but once they are likely safe from being attacked again. It also all but ensures Perdita activates last - you could stick her in the middle of a group of enemy models, and be fairly sure she can ride out attacks from all of them. Df of 10 is pretty awesome against average Cb of 4 or 5, and then it is her turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 If your not going to simultaneously activate in a turn, activate a 3ss model to make Perdita Df10 with Faster n' You and use Soulstone. Practically makes it pointless targeting her with a ranged attack as she's just going to shoot you back. Not to mention make most of the rest of your family's Df equal with most enemy Cb value... It's a pulse so you can make your entire crew higher Df. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) The Guild player will be in a position where he will not be wanting to make an Alpha Strike with a Companioned Family. Instead, he will activate the Pistolero first and use the (all) Action. He will then try and activate Family members after they have been attacked but once they are likely safe from being attacked again. It also all but ensures Perdita activates last - you could stick her in the middle of a group of enemy models, and be fairly sure she can ride out attacks from all of them. Df of 10 is pretty awesome against average Cb of 4 or 5, and then it is her turn First, yeah +2 is a HUGE boost in this game. No argument there. But, in that situation, I would rather not give my opponent a headstart on his assault. Which is what taking the time to activate the Pistolero does. I'd rather just Nino & Santiago the threat than just boost their Df to 6. But even if see the advantage of doing so, you've created a situation where Companioning is now a bad choice. That's the feature of the Ortegas. Edited August 24, 2011 by Jonas Albrecht Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Very situationally, but it would be great to put on a model that has been "Pacified". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I play Perdita, and Companioning can sometimes be not just an ineffective choice, but a downright disastrous one. Being out-Activated by almost an entire enemy crew can ruin your day. So, I know that as a Perdita player there will be times when I will not want to Companion. This gives me something extra for those times. It also means that the choice is no longer (i) Companion or (ii) do not Companion, but (i) Companion or (ii) boost Df. The alternative is now a useful option in its own right. Making choices harder is good game design, imho. Edited August 24, 2011 by Sholto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 First, yeah +2 is a HUGE boost in this game. No argument th ere. But, in that situation, I would rather not give my opponent a headstart on his assault. Which is what taking the time to activate the Pistolero does. I'd rather just Nino & Santiago the threat than just boost their Df to 6. But even if see the advantage of doing so, you've created a situation where Companioning is now a bad choice. That's the feature of the Ortegas. There are times you don't want to companion.. EG.. against the Dreamer.. it's pointless companioning against him until he drops his alpha strike, but giving you a +2 Df to weather the Alpha is amazing so you can then companion and finish them off after they have dropped.. +2 Df can really break an Alpha strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I play Perdita, and Companioning can sometimes be not just an ineffective choice, but a downright disastrous one. Being out-Activated by almost an entire enemy crew can ruin your day. So, I know that as a Perdita player there will be times when I will not want to Companion. This gives me something extra for those times. Now, when I say Companion, I don't mean activating the entire group at once. That's foolish. But being able to strategically throw 4AP at a problem instead of 2 is what makes the Family so slick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 There are times you don't want to companion.. EG.. against the Dreamer.. it's pointless companioning against him until he drops his alpha strike, but giving you a +2 Df to weather the Alpha is amazing so you can then companion and finish them off after they have dropped.. +2 Df can really break an Alpha strike. I see what you're saying, it's a Raise the Shields type situation, and I have a question, is it an aura or a pulse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 It is a Pulse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I see what you're saying, it's a Raise the Shields type situation, and I have a question, is it an aura or a pulse? Pulse. Which is in some ways better as you can't neutralise it by taking out the Latigo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Also, and this is a big one. The ability is worthless unless the model I want to protect starts its turn near the LP. I can't activate the LP and move him closer to protect said model, and I can't activate the model I'm trying to protect and move them closer to the LP. It's not only situational on when you'd want to use it, but even moreso on when you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 It is a Pulse. Thanks, couldn't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerealkiller195 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I actually think that are hidden gems to a degree... There stats are about average closer to a model that is 4 soul stones, only it has insginificant but this may not matter much pending on schemes. It cannot be companioned or activated via talents, but has stubborn which means it will have wp 7 against most things that matter. They only have 2 actions: Look out! Which is the 4" pulse +2 defense to family members who have no activated yet. Yes this includes other pistoleros! I think this ability is great though you may give up the "initiative" a 2 point difference can tip the battle in your favor. Either by forcing your opponents to cheat or closing the gap to make the opponent flip damage at Follow their lead: is a (0) action that gives a pistolero +1cb when targeting a model a unique family member also attacked. Making their combat stats somewhat more respectable. I am thinking of running: Perdita Enslaved Nephilim Abuela Ortega Nino Latigo Pistolero x3 Santiago or Convict Gunslinger Leaving about 5-6 stones for perdita Have the first pistolero give everyone defense buff when needed the other can be activation burners or follow right after someone attacked or was obeyed to attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Does it only boost Family? In that case, its probs a way to get people to consider Family heavy Ortega lists. Most 'Dita players I see only take Nino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Does it only boost Family? In that case, its probs a way to get people to consider Family heavy Ortega lists. Most 'Dita players I see only take Nino. Which is just odd. I'd never go with less than Abuela, Santiago, and Nino. Oh, and killer, go with Santiago over the convict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerealkiller195 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Yes only family members which dictates the rest of your list building to a degree.. I am still on the fence about which is a better choice santiago or convict gunslinger, so far the gunslinger has slight edge in so far that he can actually fight in melee *edit any particular reason Jonas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 In that case, its probs a way to get people to consider Family heavy Ortega lists. Most 'Dita players I see only take Nino. I agree this is odd. Like I said in another thread its never seems worth it to me to take just one Family member. You are paying for companion so you might as well take advantage of it. Good chat about the Latigo Pistolero. I am still trying to figure out how best he fits in a crew. I am not sure he is going to be a must have add(unless an alt sculpt has one in a sombrero) but I think he might end up being helpful sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) *edit any particular reason Jonas? Santiago is better for Objectives, and is a nice damage sponge. That said, if you can take both, do so as long as you can put up with either of the godawful CG sculpts. Suppressing Fire is a spell that I wish Perdita had. Edited August 25, 2011 by Jonas Albrecht Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I haven't played my girl in a while, but I hadn't played a family list through my entire last league. I was bored. My typical family list was nino, franc, santi and the ens. neph. that's only 21 ss. then I would throw in whatever I felt like. I had virtually no challenge with anyone (honestly only Ophelia gave me any trouble). In a 35ss game, I could add the 3 Pistoleros and I think that would be brutal. The Santiago debate has been done to death...I'm still firmly convinced that to get the most distance with the Ortega's, you don't drop family for Outcasts. @Jonas, good call starting this discussion. I wasn't too sure about the Pistolero before, but now I know they'd be worth the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 @Jonas, good call starting this discussion. I wasn't too sure about the Pistolero before, but now I know they'd be worth the investment. I'm going to have to play a few actual games with them (instead of just setting up mock battles), but I'd be happy to be wrong about their usefulness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Always hard to tell on paper. Pandora doesn't look great on paper, but she is one of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Always hard to tell on paper. I try never to go by what's On Paper. I started this thread after some mock battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerealkiller195 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I also think its worth noting that that they help to baby sit abeula because they are considered family so if she gets attacked they can get a free move. On top of they get the benefit from her healing spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted July 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Curious about how people view the Pistoleros now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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