Sandwich Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Because if she was, that's fairly brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Given the nature of their... relationship, I wouldn't be surprised. As an aside, Molly makes me totally want to run a Seamus crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Avatar Seamus makes me want to run a Molly crew. Or a Seamus/Molly Crew. Hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Got my Book 3 in front of me, but my Book 2 is far off right now, and my memory of Molly is quite bad, so could you remind me why they're awesome together? I guess +2 Wk on the big guy will be fun, but what other affinities are why talking about here? (in other words, how else can Molly not get here fast enough?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Molly picks up the slck in casting and support while Seamus can go in and scare the crap out of stuff and beat face. Well thats it in a nutshell theres is a lot more to it than that but they really do work well together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Got my Book 3 in front of me, but my Book 2 is far off right now, and my memory of Molly is quite bad, so could you remind me why they're awesome together? I guess +2 Wk on the big guy will be fun, but what other affinities are why talking about here? (in other words, how else can Molly not get here fast enough?) Well, pre-book 3, my gripe with Molly was that she did everything Seamus did - Just terribly. To elaborate: 1. She increases Mobility (+2 Wk to Belles when within 4" of Molly, +3 Wk from Imbue Vigor) which wasn't very important, you'd be better off making things come to you instead of going to them. Now, Avatar Seamus absolutely must go straight to you, that +3 Wk (I believe that puts him at an 8" Wk.) Is essentially game over for whatever model you want to beat to death with a giant green meaty Hyde White, and to my knowledge, he loses Belles of the Ball, so Molly's Extraordinary Dead fills the hole it left. (Its her 4":aura of +2 Wk to Belles, forgot name.) 2. She could summon Belles or Horrors. Would be good, but it costs you 2 Corpse Counters and a high crow. Terrible with Seamus, he can summon with one Corpse Counter and a high crow. Avatar Seamus can't summon and frankly doesn't need Corpse Counters that much, but will sure as hell be creating them left and right. Molly then becomes your summoner and does it quite well. 3. She's fairly durable, but when gaging in her arsenal, that doesn't matter with Seamus, you need Belles and other models with much more synergy. However, when Seamus goes Avatar, he loses his unkillable aspect, so you need someone to be meaty when Seamus can't do that any longer. 4. And at long last, she debuffs Defense and Attack. Total crap when you realize Seamus doesn't give a damn about hitting you anyway he's going to cheat high and burn soulstones regardless if he wants to shoot you, and lets be honest, do you really care if they wail on Seamus?? However now with the Avatar of Dread, you're going to want to be smack dab in the middle of their crew, scaring them and beating the piss out of them, and you REALLY do not want them to be swinging back at you, so Molly's :-fate to Attack Defense flips immediately becomes literally life saving. I'm thoroughly convinced that Molly was built after Avatar Seamus, and I commend them for how perfectly the two go together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdelemental Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 We think about this stuff sometimes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireTrollJake Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 We think about this stuff sometimes... I just pictured you singing "If I only had a brain" right before this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Well, pre-book 3, my gripe with Molly was that she did everything Seamus did - Just terribly. To elaborate: 1. She increases Mobility (+2 Wk to Belles when within 4" of Molly, +3 Wk from Imbue Vigor) which wasn't very important, you'd be better off making things come to you instead of going to them. not her best ability but has a pile of uses. A walk buff is never bad whether you have lure or not. loses Belles of the Ball, so Molly's Extraordinary Dead fills the hole it left. (Its her 4":aura of +2 Wk to Belles, forgot name.) The two stack, so it doesnt reallly fill a hole, it just means thtey dont get quite as slow. 2. She could summon Belles or Horrors. Would be good, but it costs you 2 Corpse Counters and a high crow. Terrible with Seamus, he can summon with one Corpse Counter and a high crow. Seamus summons Rotten Belles. Molly can summon any Belle (including Sybelle). So not really a bad version of seamus' ability. 4. And at long last, she debuffs Defense and Attack. Total crap when you realize Seamus doesn't give a damn about hitting you anyway he's going to cheat high and burn soulstones regardless if he wants to shoot you, and lets be honest, do you really care if they wail on Seamus?? i dont really know where to begin with this, lol. you cant always have high cards to cheat. SS are a finite resource. Anythingg that gives a negative flip is very strong because it removes the ability to cheat. I'm thoroughly convinced that Molly was built after Avatar Seamus, and I commend them for how perfectly the two go together. They dont go together any better than any other model does with Molly. Just because she has similar abilities to basic Seamus doesnt mean she has synergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I really don't think we need to go through Sandwich's crusade against Molly yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I really don't think we need to go through Sandwich's crusade against Molly yet again. Sandwich appears to be pro-Molly, this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippieshopper Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Sandwich appears to be pro-Molly, this time around. Yup. He has a very different view compared to the other folks on the forum. He makes good points but people don't like to be told they're wrong. Just a point, he wrote the super-elaborate Seamus tactica that everyone has copied as a template. They're so quick to call him an idiot but never credit some of the good stuff he's done...it's like Fox News but without Bill O'Reilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanhead Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I second your thoughts sandwich. I've been struggling to fit Molly in given her cost but once seamus goes avatar he changes his play dramatically and the Molly backup is very helpful. Let's keep the CONSTRUCTIVE discussion going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Yup. He has a very different view compared to the other folks on the forum. He makes good points but people don't like to be told they're wrong. Or his methodology for delivering his information took a slide into unbearability over the course of some months. But lately, we're getting rather smitty (seriously, Wryd, we're adults, give the option to turn off this ridiculous filter) towards each other. So there's that. Edited August 27, 2011 by Jonas Albrecht Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I've always been a pro-Molly guy!! Imbue Vigor is amazing when you cast it on the enemy, and there is no resistance. +2 Wk on an enemy you want to Lure is incredible, or +2 Wk to Seamus!! Casting Whispered Secret to "borrow" Undead Psychosis from Seamus can free up an AP for him...or cast it on different parts of the board. Speaking of Whispered Secret, if she snags one of Seamus' spells before he manifests and never casts the spell, does she keep it? Cause that'd be awesome and validate your conclusion, Sandwich, on Molly being pre-designed for the Avatar of Dread even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigkid Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Maybe the question should be 'Does Avatar Seamus work without Molly??'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 So, exactly why do you people think she fits aSeamus so well? What makes her fit even better than with vanilla Seamus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 To reiterate what was said earlier, Molly is in part a weaker version of normal Seamus, so when he transforms you still have some movement buffs, summoning, and debuffing left on the table. Also aSeamus with +3 Wk is horrific, and nobody wants double negative defensive flips when the Hulk comes a knockin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Or his methodology for delivering his information took a slide into unbearability over the course of some months. But lately, we're getting rather smitty (seriously, Wryd, we're adults, give the option to turn off this ridiculous filter) towards each other. So there's that. Truth be told Jonas, I do like you as a person. That said, See, without me here to be the brunt of everyone's hatred, you turn on each other. So see me for what I am. A complete monster everyone can hate together. Like Germany a few years back. When Germany afked for a while, what happened between USA and USSR? ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Truth be told Jonas, I do like you as a person. That said, See, without me here to be the brunt of everyone's hatred, you turn on each other. So see me for what I am. A complete monster everyone can hate together. Like Germany a few years back. When Germany afked for a while, what happened between USA and USSR? ??????? I think you have a bit of a god complex going on there dude! All you really need to do is realise that it's ok to be completely, totally wrong from time to time Being wrong is great when you were completely wrong about a model sucking, cos it means you have a good new model to play with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 So, exactly why do you people think she fits aSeamus so well? What makes her fit even better than with vanilla Seamus? Basically exactly what Teal said in the post below yours. Some people DO enjoy Molly, especially as a leader. I'm not going to try and take that from them at all. But from what I have personally experienced, she is 9 points of Bad Seamus. She's tanky, cool. So is Seamus, but way better. She's mean to your Wp, cool. So is Seamus, and he's a lot better at it. She has some pretty brutal debuffs to your stats, cool. So does Seamus, her :-fate Attack / Defense flip is unparallel, but considering the rest of her kit, she's not as useful as Seamus. She can summon Belles and Horrors, neat. Seamus can summon Belles better. She can buff Belles, fancy. Seamus does it a lot better. So it was basically like paying 9 Soul Stones to get another Seamus, except Seamus 2 couldn't fill his shoes nearly as good. It took high crows to summon and two corpse counters, she had to be up close with the Belles to buff their Wk, which meant you had to burn high cards to keep her alive, et cetera. So she wasn't that viable with JUST Seamus. But then along comes his Avatar, Who isn't tanky. Who can't mess with your Wp. (Okay -2 and he's scary as sh*t but more on that in a minute.) Who can't debuff. Who can't summon. Who can't buff your Belles. But guess who can. Molly. So now Seamus is the only Master who can Avatar form and still retain everything he loses by manifesting. It makes her incredibly useful. And everything she has just fits so perfectly. Gah. Wyrd are just a bunch of freakin' pros at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Truth be told Jonas, I do like you as a person. I regret calling you out like that. It was unecessary and way more dickish than what I was accusing you of doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I think you have a bit of a god complex going on there dude! All you really need to do is realise that it's ok to be completely, totally wrong from time to time Being wrong is great when you were completely wrong about a model sucking, cos it means you have a good new model to play with! Read my past 850 or so posts. I am a living, breathing God complex. Although I'm still capable of understanding my flaws and limitations. I'm more of a perfectionist. It's just 100% impossible to relay humor over the internet so I come off far more mean than I actually am. That said, I wasn't at all wrong. Molly in a Seamus list is crap unless you have aSeamus to go with her, at which point she becomes the #1 9 (or 11) SS model in the game for Seamus to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I regret calling you out like that. It was unecessary and way more dickish than what I was accusing you of doing. Except that you shouldn't regret it. Sometimes the only way to deal with a total asshole is to become one yourself. But you weren't an ass, and you were in the right. So I'll apologize instead. :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I disagree that Molly in a Seamus crew is crap, what she provides is exactly what you say a "bad" Seamus however the way I play it is that this then gives Seamus the freedom to go off and achieve objectives/beat face/terrify the opponents crew etc without being tied down to his crew. Also a fast model with a walk of 7 is a little scary whoever you play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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