North Wind and Ice Mirror

[Mentat_Canis]

This was in the Resolved Rules thread yet has 2 different answers and no ruling from a marshal.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18324&highlight=NOrth+Wind

So Question

Does North wind allow you to cast through an Ice mirror up to 9 inches Away. Then you get your 3 inches on your spell. Thank you ahead of time for the answer.

(1) North Wind- Models with Frozen Heart recieve +3 to the Rg of their Abilities, Spells, and ranged Weapons. Pulses and Aura's ranges are not increased.

Abilities:

Ice Mirror: When casting a spell, this model may draw LoS and range from a Friendly model with Frozen Heart within 6". These spells receive -3 Ca. Spells with the gun icon may not be cast through a model in melee using Ice Mirror.

[pgbsamurai]

Ice Mirror is going off of the original range of the spell. The +3 is added to the model model with Frozen Heart, not that model that is casting the spell. In order to get the +3 you would have North Wind on the model casting the spell, not the model that is being used for LOS.

edit: So if Raspy has North Wind cast on her, then she would get +3 to her range on Ice Mirror and the spell. If she casts December's Curse through an Ice Gamin 9" away, the range of the spell would be 13" from the Gamin. If the Ice Gamin was affected by North Wind, but Raspy was not then you don't get the +3 from North Wind on spells Raspy casts.

Edited August 18, 2011 by pgbsamurai

[Mentat_Canis]

Ice Mirror is going off of the original range of the spell. The +3 is added to the model model with Frozen Heart, not that model that is casting the spell. In order to get the +3 you would have North Wind on the model casting the spell, not the model that is being used for LOS.

Yes this I know that's why its within 3 inches of Raspy that was not the question, the question was do I get to cast through a mirror 9 inches away from Raspy if Raspy is in the Aura of North Wind.

[bigasb]

We have always played yes to Ice mirror and yes to extra range on the spell cast, so you can get some really long range spell casting.

This ability makes the silent one an auto choise.

[pgbsamurai]

Ah, I see, sorry misread the question.

Yes, you could do 9" as North Wind does specify +3 to abilities as well.

[Mentat_Canis]

Yes I have always played you get to do it from 9" the question came up in the Archanist Forums today and I tried to look up if it had been ruled on and in the Resolved section there was the link above which doesn't say yes or no so I just posted to know what way it is because some people play one way some another.

The main reason this comes up is that Ice Mirror says within 6" and North wind says increase Rg. So the question is does saying within 6" count as saying a range.

[LoboStele]

No, North Wind does NOT increase the range of Ice Mirror from 6" to 9". This has been ruled elsewhere already. The easy way to know though, is that North Wind specifically says you increase the 'Rg' of abilities by 3". Ice Mirror does not use the 'Rg' stat, and this is a specific stat in Malifaux, not just a shorthand for 'range'. So, abilities that simply say such-and-such within X" will not be affected, whereas anything that says "Rg:12" is increased.

Honestly though, it changes things from like only 20" reach with December's curse, instead of 23", or something like that, LOL. With enough other Frozen Heart pieces on the table, you can already pretty well hit anything on 2/3 of the table anyways. Don't really need ANOTHER 3".

[Mentat_Canis]

Lobo I don't care what ways it goes but you says it has been ruled on I looked through the Resolved rules forum so if you could show me where it is ruled on I will be happy with whatever the ruling is. The only place I found it was the link I posted in my initial thread.

I just want to know to help a player out in the Arcanist Board and to make sure I play it right. I will be playing 6 inches until we get a clear ruling.

I agree its almost never needed because it is the difference between 19 and 22 inches.

[LoboStele]

Hmm...I'm having trouble finding an official ruling too. Here's another thread where we discussed it:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22587&highlight=Mirror

[Buhallin]

Word from a Marshal:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=257425&postcount=11

So at the very least we have contradicting statements, one explicit from Ratty, one implicit in the moving of the thread to Resolved. I'll take the explicit

[LoboStele]

Huzzah, there it is! I knew I had remembered seeing a specific ruling on it somewhere. Thanks Buhalin.

[pgbsamurai]

My only question is the same as the last poster in the OP's link. Is there any ability that actually uses the Rg stat? I'm looking and so far I don't see one.

[Iamwyrd]

I'm pretty sure abilities is just a general group from which unique rules are drawn from.

So I've always played it as it does give you the +3" as looking through every book none of the abilities use the Rg characteristic. Only abilites with any range are pulses and auras, which North Wind doesnt affect. So if that's the case North Wind should just state spells. Just my opinion.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Iamwyrd

[ZiggyQubert]

I'm pretty sure abilities is just a general group from which unique rules are drawn from.

So I've always played it as it does give you the +3" as looking through every book none of the abilities use the Rg characteristic. Only abilites with any range are pulses and auras, which North Wind doesnt affect. So if that's the case North Wind should just state spells. Just my opinion.

Or as they have stated in the main rule book, they are covering there bases for future rules

[Calmdown]

This doesn't need a rules martial, it was probably moved to resolved because the answer is implicit in the rules of the game and on the cards.

North Wind adds specifically to Rg. Rg is a specfic Malifaux statistic. If it said "Add 3" to the range of all abilities" it would be a totally different ability.

Ice Mirror does not have an Rg. It is a textually described ability. As such it does not benefit from North Wind in any way.