karn987 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) It's time to get down into the guts and gears of our favorite bald mechanical genius! My Quick Take on Him A. Hoffman is one of my favorite Avatars because it accomplishes a very key thing... it provides the master with something different. A. Hoffman does what Hoffman doesn't do, he kicks but in combat by himself. Sure Hoffman has his tricks, but he can't hold a candle to Lilith, Lady J, Perdita, or even half combat Masters. He is a support archtype through and through.... but his Avatar is a complete ass kicker. He gains a powerful gun and a very solid sword as well increased manuverability and durability. He also gets one of the potentially deadliest spells in the game and basically... if it's mid to late game and you've lost several of your constructs you all know the pain of Hoffman... he has a lot of trouble once his crew starts going down. A. Hoffman is what he needs, you Manifest and suddenly you can kick ass without relying on your crew. So when the chips are down, you pull this ace out of your sleeve and unleash your Super Pinch Crusher! [10 internets to whoever knows that reference ] Manifest Requirements Verbatum from the book: 1) C. Hoffman kills two enemy models with Strikes performed with the Machine Puppet Action. 2) C. Hoffman successfully affects a target enemy non-Master Construct with the Override Edict Spell. OR if no enemy non-Master Constructs are in the game: C. Hoffman successfully affects two target non-Master Constructs with the Override Edict Spell. So not to bad in all honesty. The Machine Puppet kills come pretty regularly in my experience, and it's easy enough to set up for them especialy with the new Warden. The Override Edict requirement isnt that bad either, but it can suck if the enemy Constructs are the type that hang back a lot or tend to blow themselves up *grumbles about Spiders* Either way, they are not that bad to pull off in reality and nicely fit into his play style. So you shouldn't have to much trouble with them and can focus more on playing the game then worrying about the checklist. His Greatest Streagth By far A. Hoffman's greatest streagth is the complete shift in archtype and play style from his normal form. If you think of the spectrum of model types, Hoffman is way down on the support end of the spectrum and when he Manifests he shifts deep into the Powerhouse section... thats huge for him. He gains a nice Paired melee weapon and a rather potent Gun that has a Blast on severe. My experience with regular Hoffman has been great, but by far his biggest weakness I've found is his nearly complete reliance on his crew. Sure he has some tricks to do stuff himself, but once his crew starts to die off he becomes very easy to manage. The Avatar solves this perfectly, letting you mid to late game (turn 4 or 5) hit the red button and switch modes. This has saved by butt several times already with him, giving my crew that extra oomph they need and puting another huge threat on the board. That said... this is not actually all that useful for you if your Crew isn't really suffering losses. To me its a toss up to Manifest or Not to Manifest if my crew is still mostly intact. Basically if I still have my PeaceKeeper, Warden's, or Hunters I may want to stick with Hoffman. Yes even A. Hoffman has some stuff he can do for his crew... but really regular Hoffman is a much much better supporter. So that brings me to the next thing.. When to Manifest This has been the tricky part of A. Hoffman... for me at least. I've had games where I've Manifested to early and the loss of the support Hoffman gives hurts or even causes me to lose. Then I've done it to late and there just isnt enough A. Hoffman can do alone. So this I think is going to be the hardest part of A. Hoffman. My suggestion from my time with him, is try to do it just as poo starts to hit the fan and your models are at serious risk. Mark of Amalgamation can be a nice boost to their Armor and because he still has Empowered, it's nice to have other constructs around. The other thing is, some models are just poor targets for minions to go after. The best example of this are Masters but there are also really powerful minions (ex: Ashes and Dust, Nekima, Corphyee Duet) that tend to just shred other minions. So it could be worth Manifest ASAP to deal with them. The Big Red Button of Doom!!! This is his Don't Go Softly spell. It is an (all) action that can only be taken when he has 3 or fewer Wds remaining and costs him Wd to use. If that would kill him, he still does the spell. But it causes him to perform a Weapon Strike against every model in his LoS and he can make ranged strikes while in melee during this action. So sadly this does include your own model from its current wording and I THINK it also requires you to have range to the targets since your making a Strike with the weapon and part of that is being in range (btw his gun is range 10"). But basically... this is a Death Blossom. You position him the turn before of he just happens to start the turn with lots of enemies around him. You hit the button and burn everything you have trying to finish them off! Fantastic against almost any crew and really is your last resort move, I've only ever used it on Turn 6 so far (but that may just be my style). But each time even if it hasn't done quite enough, it always scares the crap out of my opponent XD. Building Momentum What really intrigues me about A. Hoffman (besides the huge archtype shift) is his Assimilate Edict Ability.... this lets Hoffman gain a specific Action from a Construct he killed for the rest of the Encounter. The implications of this are huge already when you just consider some of the nice actions on Constructs. But then you add in his (0) spell, Resistance is Futile which makes a model gain the Construct Characteristic until the Start Closing Phase... any eyebrows go up? The ramifications of pulling this off successfully are massive. So with this in mind, there is something to be said for geting him out ASAP and starting to assimilate actions. You have your PeaceKeeper and/or Hunters start pulling things in with their Harpoons and then Hoffman swoops in for the kill and the parts. So while this is as good as the actions on your opponents models... that give a lot of pause to your opponent. Oh and on a side note... Assimilate Edict just says Constructs... not enemy Constructs So there could be some good fun to be had with that! Any way, thats just the surface of this and really more high level view of my experience. Love to hear what others have seen and are coming up with! Edited August 17, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Awesome write up! But I need more details - what sort of weapon stats are we talking about here? Is he a true beat stick? What about protection wise - does he have anything to keep him alive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboStele Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'd say he's a pretty decent beatstick. He's a 6 Cb with 3/4/5 Dg for his Melee, and a 5 Cb with 2/3/4 for the ranged attack. He's got Flurry, and then he gets a for attacks with either the melee or ranged attack. He doesn't get a whole lot in terms of extra damage boosts, as his only trigger has a chance for Paralyze, but no extra damage or anything like that. So you'll have to go for things via Assimilate Edict in order to boost your damage, I think. Should be able to take things like the Critical Strike trigger or such when you kill enemies. I think Hoffman will be a fun Avatar to play, but he'll also be sort of a tough one to be really good with. As Karn eluded to above, will take some practice, and really understanding the right timing to put him on the table, and how to use him the most effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Does he have any action modifiers (melee expert, casting expert, etc)? Sounds pretty cool - but I knew when I saw the art work, I'd be getting him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Should be able to take things like the Critical Strike trigger or such when you kill enemies. I may be completely wrong here, haven't seen the book here, but I don't think that wil be much use as its Critical strike (weapon name) and if he doen't have the weapon listed he can't then use the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Should be able to take things like the Critical Strike trigger or such when you kill enemies. Wasn't Assimilate Edict actions only? =x (Also.. CAN I HaZ RasPy NEXT? PLIz) :thimble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted August 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Wasn't Assimilate Edict actions only? =x (Also.. CAN I HaZ RasPy NEXT? PLIz) :thimble Yeah it is actions only, it's not the same as Assimilate action which Lazarus has. So no taking Critical strike etc, he can only take the actions. Also is that a request for Raspy next? I can jump into it if it is . Does he have any action modifiers (melee expert, casting expert, etc)? Sounds pretty cool - but I knew when I saw the art work, I'd be getting him... He can get Ranged Expert. He has an ability called Amalgamated Form and basically every turn he choses one of the following options: Speed: Flight, Cg 6Survival: Armor +2, Regen 1Suppression: (+1) Ranged Expert So he can switch modes almost and give himself what he needs for that given turn. I find myself taking Suppression or Speed the most as I try to be aggressive with him. Some times just sitting back and shooting 3 times is best, other times charging in and cutting this up is the best (especially with the Scorpion strike trigger which after damaging the defender has them make a df ->12 duel or are paralyzed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboStele Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Doh, my bad on Assimilate Edict. I forgot that it's only Actions, while the regular Assimilate (like on normal Hoffman or Lazarus) is the standard 'copy a Talent or Spell' which would then include stuff like Crit strike. You're right though, that it probably wouldn't have worked anyway, since Crit strike usually references a specific weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I'm a little worried about the Manifest requirements - outside of Arcanist constructs, most of them seem to be immune to influence, so rather than my opponent not having any constructs I'm more likely to run into lists that have constructs, but don't have any I can use Override Edict on, which will rule out one Manifest requirement completely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Personaly i dont realy like his avatar form much. Normal hoffman is actualy very decent in melee its just most of the time he has better things to do. So what i see him geting is a gun. Now i will admit its a very nice gun. Problem tho is lack of action points. He basicly trades fast for ranged expert. Not a good trade in my book. He also loses drawn to metal. I rarely find places where the trade would be worth the ss cost. Unless his crew has been totaly distroyed and your going for a hellmary play to table the oponent i think he is lacking. Hoffman is a master with tons of cool tricks and he loses more then he gains from avatar imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucket_boy101 Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 He never had fast...he had to use a zero to get it. Does he lose that ability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Big Baws Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Nice read. Love Avatar Hoffman. The art reminds me of Shin Mazinger Z for some weird reason...maybe it is me who is weird.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sygerrik Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 I really like the design philosophy and how cohesive it all is. He's all about amalgamation and assimilation; he can use Resistance is Futile then gun you down and steal what makes you tick. When you compare him to some of the other beatsticky Avatars he falls a bit short, but once he starts to get new abilities he becomes great. My one problem with this is that you can only steal Actions, and I don't think you're allowed to take Fast (sadface). You can take Melee Expert and Casting Expert and so on, though. A lot of the things that would really help are Abilities and/or Spells. We'll see how it works out. I like the fact that he becomes killy, and I love the concept. Too bad Avatars lose their Totems, because this guy would actually encourage me to take the Mechanical Attendant over the Mobile Toolkit (to keep Maintain Machines on the table after I manifest). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpangelu Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 As I mentioned in a different post somewhere a way back when, and was mentioned above. I don't like how if the opponent has one immune to influence construct, you can't complete your manifestation requirements.. at all. It would be a lot better if the overide edict was against defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboStele Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 As I mentioned in a different post somewhere a way back when, and was mentioned above. I don't like how if the opponent has one immune to influence construct, you can't complete your manifestation requirements.. at all. It would be a lot better if the overide edict was against defense. I think if you killed said enemy Construct, and THEN used Override Edict twice on your own model, you could do it. Also, you only have to do 1 of the 2 requirements in order to Manifest, so you can just do the other one using Machine Puppet, which isn't too tough either, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpangelu Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 My point that it isn't possible to manifest. And if I'm not mistaken the wording says "if the enemy crew contains a construct" Which if that is the case, is it crew on board or crew as started? If that is the case then its nice to know. My point as a whole hasn't been that his manifestation requirements aren't possible. But compared to some they aren't the easy at all. Somer.. he heals his own people who can easily inflict wounds on themselves. Lady J needs to kill someone in melee while 3 people are in 10" and los.. Sonia inflict 10 wounds... (lets fact it... not hard) Pandora ... inflict 10 wounds through the trauma. I mean these are a few examples. I'll go through a more thorough breakdown later. Again my point being that there isn't anything he can do if an opponent brings a construct immune to influence... They should make overide edict a df resist. Achieves the same effect but allows it on all constructs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Big Baws Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) I actually like the Avatar isn't super fast to turn up. I think the key is to know when to make Hoffman manifest. It's probably best when some of your pieces are down as regular Hoffman gets weaker the less Constructs he has. That means he is a mid-to-late game manifest. Edited November 1, 2011 by Da Big Baws Typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpangelu Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I agree, though it does bring up interesting thoughts about using minimal constructs with his avatar and actually build a list around other models. Hmmm.. might post an different thread on this, because the more I think about it, the more intersting it seems it would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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