Fulgrima Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I don't really understand the problem of having your name on a list? Your name will already be on a list of the original tournament results this is essentially a copy of that information that already exists on the internet. I guess the ultimate way to not be on the rankings is use a fake name then it really doesn't matter you could even use a different one for every event if you want and then you don't need to worry about it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_hazard Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 All TOs were asked prior to their events being added so your final point isa frankly silly statement. As to your initial statement, they didn't yell you as they didn't know at the time. It is often difficult to gauge tone and intent on an internet forum when the visual and tonal clues are not there to assist. That said your responses seem overly aggressive. The poster did not state that TOs were not asked but said 'probably' as a potential reason for the current situation. As for the point above removal being difficult, rankingsHQ added a feature this week especially for removing yourself, so don't make speculative statements if you haven't tried to use the features yet. Can you please post a link to this feature that will enable me to remove my name from the rankings without first having to create an account and thereby automatically agree to their T&C and Privacy Policy. I have searched their Privacy Policy and their FAQs but all of the documents I could find refer to how to join not how to leave. On a related note it is now 15 hours since I submitted my request to RHQ and I have yet to receive an acknowledgement let alone action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_hazard Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 @ aka_hazard - I/we understand and have noted your concerns. Beyond that I'm not sure what it is you are trying to achieve from this thread. Regards I am glad that you understand what I was/am trying to convey and I appreciate your posting to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Apologies if my posts seem aggresive, they are definetly not meant in that tone, I am merely being to the point as I hate posting long messages on my phone, hence the spelling mistakes. Eg yell = tell and so on. As for the feature, I've said it before but that is something to do with rankingshq in general, and it seems the best way imo. To have s system of removal that required no contact nor signing up could be a system that becomes abused as people could just remove anyone? The guy that runs rankings is a busy guy atm but he should hopefully respond soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Changed mind. Can't delete. Edited August 17, 2011 by Fenrir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafruk Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 The guy that runs rankings is a busy guy atm but he should hopefully respond soon. Think he's out the country at the Warhammer/40k ETC or packing to go if he's not already left. Wouldn't expect any action until next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talos Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 All TOs were asked prior to their events being added so your final point isa frankly silly statement. Just want to say that is not true. The TO of the London tourny this summer did not give permission or know that his tourny was being put up on Ranking HQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Can you please post a link to this feature that will enable me to remove my name from the rankings without first having to create an account and thereby automatically agree to their T&C and Privacy Policy. I have searched their Privacy Policy and their FAQs but all of the documents I could find refer to how to join not how to leave. http://www.rankingshq.com/despatches...nrankings.html Personally if someone enters one of my tournaments and doesn't want to be ranked I'll just enter them as "anon" in the submitted results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_hazard Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 http://www.rankingshq.com/despatches...nrankings.html Personally if someone enters one of my tournaments and doesn't want to be ranked I'll just enter them as "anon" in the submitted results. Thank you for the link however it does require the person to create an account with RHQ before being able to use it. I would urge anyone who wants to do this to read the RHQ Terms and Conditions first. Item 13 of RHQ T&Cs states: 13. If you do post material, you represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to the content that you post and you grant Rankings HQ a non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable and fully sub-licensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display such content throughout the world in any media. You also grant Rankings HQ and its sub-licensees the right to use any pseudonym, moniker or user name you submit in connection with such content or your use of the Rankings HQ System, if we wish to do so. The bold emphasis is mine. I am not a lawyer but the way that reads to me is that you give RHQ the right to use your email address, because that is your username, in any way they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Do you think that RHQ have some evil plans for my name? Maybe they are super villains and we haven't noticed yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_hazard Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Do you think that RHQ have some evil plans for my name? Maybe they are super villains and we haven't noticed yet Maybe they just want to sell it on to email marketeers? It may be nothing to you but people should be aware what they are signing up for. On a side note RHQ also have the results for a Flames of War tournament listed against my name. The tournament organiser did not know the results from his tournament had been listed and the listed admin on RHQ for the tournament is the RHQ admin. You can draw your own conclusions, I know I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 I draw my conclusion that they are trying to support the gaming community by offering a service that does no harm to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted August 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 @ Everyone IMHO we stopped covering any new ground here some pages back, and are now essentially re-posting our opinions at each other. This is not constructive. People have made their opinions clear and we need to respect those opinions, if we agree with them or not. I think it's time to bring this thread to a close now. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulgrima Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ok fair enough maybe its an idea to make a post that is a general guide to the rankings that can contain the details on how to remove yourself from them as well as how to be included and get it sticky in the Europe events discussion. But have it locked so we cant rant at each other in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 @ Everyone IMHO we stopped covering any new ground here some pages back, and are now essentially re-posting our opinions at each other. This is not constructive. People have made their opinions clear and we need to respect those opinions, if we agree with them or not. I think it's time to bring this thread to a close now. Regards I dont think it's valid to ask for thread to close just because people are disagreeing with the thing still. I think you need to accept the weight of opinion and stop burying your head in the sand and give it up for a bad job. And FYI I've read two posts today from people who've stated they won't attend tournaments whilst RHQ is around because they dont want their details plastered on the internet. Whether you hold sway with the whole "ZOMG DETAILS ARE SCARY" thing (I dont...we enter our details in enough places to not care about one more, tbh) or not, the fact is that some people do value that privacy and you're breaching it by uploading their names without their permission. And as a result, you're driving people away from tournaments. Is that what you want to do to a fledgling tournament scene? Come on henchmen, get your heads out of the sand and listen to the people you're meant to be representing. (to be clear again - I'm actually for centralising rankings - just done properly, in a way that doesnt upset people, and with a system that represents actual player skill) MythixFox: Ill get round to replying to your PM at some point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 So I said to James/fox I wouldn't post again but a couple quick things; It's already been said if people don't want to be uploaded on rankings in future the TO will address this such as closseaus idea. I don't see how you can say bad job/weight of opinion. James has done an excellent job with a lot of work. And the 'weight of opinion' that you speak of is 4/5 members consistently posting over and over, compared to the satisfied ones who post a couple of times. I'm intrigued as to your implementation of better rankings too...? Finally, if there is a better way to represent it, which I can't see atm, then we used rankings as a method of advertising to the players from other systems to show them that there are gamers and there are tournaments and its still growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skies Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) Ok, tried to stay away from this but going to add a few things in. Alot of the tournaments I have seen have their results posted online anyway for everyone to see. All that Rankings HQ does is collate them, you (The player) could have done that yourself given enough time and searching for the tournaments. I'm trying not to make this sound like an attack on anyone but as already stated you could just not go to the rankings site. It's not hard to ignore it. In regards to people saying they wanted to opt out. I believe there has been a total of five or six threads relating to rankings, several with high post counts. Amazingly enough things get missed, and oops we're only human at the end of the day. I believe what happened was the results (or links to the results) were sent in to be collated and then listed. I'm not going to go over old ground that MythicFox has already covered and I'd advise everyone to have a listen to the gamers lounge podcast specifically on the rankings and the interview with Mythic himself. Also dang Ukrocky beat me to it Edited August 18, 2011 by Iron Skies Ninja'd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucklemonkey Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) So I said to James/fox I wouldn't post again but a couple quick things; It's already been said if people don't want to be uploaded on rankings in future the TO will address this such as closseaus idea. I don't see how you can say bad job/weight of opinion. James has done an excellent job with a lot of work. And the 'weight of opinion' that you speak of is 4/5 members consistently posting over and over, compared to the satisfied ones who post a couple of times. Finally, if there is a better way to represent it, which I can't see atm, then we used rankings as a method of advertising to the players from other systems to show them that there are gamers and there are tournaments and its still growing. I would have to ask how you think it is a good job? It was first opened for discussion when the decision had already been made. Vocal objections were made by the player base which were largely ignored. Then rankings attached retrospectively to past tournaments ensuring that those who had voiced an opinion which differs from your own were included in a ranking system nobody outside of Yorkshire seems to have asked for. If rankings were to be implemented despite objections surely a clean break would have been advisable with tournaments with attached ranking points clearly indicated. As I have previously stated I will be willing to give them a try and I recognise the efforts involved but it is surely plain to see that this situation has been terribly handled. Also the repeated pro posters are also few in number. Edited August 18, 2011 by Chucklemonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) So I said to James/fox I wouldn't post again but a couple quick things; It's already been said if people don't want to be uploaded on rankings in future the TO will address this such as closseaus idea. I don't see how you can say bad job/weight of opinion. James has done an excellent job with a lot of work. And the 'weight of opinion' that you speak of is 4/5 members consistently posting over and over, compared to the satisfied ones who post a couple of times. I'm intrigued as to your implementation of better rankings too...? Finally, if there is a better way to represent it, which I can't see atm, then we used rankings as a method of advertising to the players from other systems to show them that there are gamers and there are tournaments and its still growing. I wouldnt say it's a good job; a good job would have involved less "woops guys, we have rankings live and we werent expecting it" or "hey guys, we're planning to implement this" rather than "hey guys, we implemented this". That said, no-one should detract from the fact that a) the guys put a lot of work into this or the fact that it is intended to help the community. It's a shame that the reaction has been like this but it is what it is; no matter how much effort you put in on behalf of a community, people will still complain if its not done right. I still think there's a large element of head-sand-burying going on here; repeated calls of "the noise is just the same posters over and over" are wrong. Read through this thread, read through the old threads, read the threads on club forums and you'll see the same negative sentiments echoed over and over with only a minority arguing for the rankings. Regardless of the various reasons, it's undeniable that the reaction is negative and hence you guys need to accept the fact that this isn't working and look at making changes! You could start with a very easy to implement plan that would get you a lot of easy wins: 1) Remove all reference to past Malifaux tournaments and remove the information of Malifaux players from RHQ 2) Make the rankings Opt-in I believe you'd solve the majority of peoples' issues with the whole debacle right there and then. Edited August 18, 2011 by Calmdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) I wouldnt say it's a good job; a good job would have involved less "woops guys, we have rankings live and we were expecting it" or "hey guys, we're planning to implement this" rather than "hey guys, we implemented this". The Henchmen had decided that ranking is what they wanted, so ranking is what they went ahead with. "For the community", of course. Older tournaments were probably added to bump up the numbers, and to make it seem there was more people in the ranking scene for potential new players looking at the listing. Edited August 18, 2011 by Fenrir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Guys, points have been made and listened/not listened to - and I worry these discussions are doing more harm to the community than the rankings themselves could. How would you feel about just rolling with it for now and seeing where it takes us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Guys, points have been made and listened/not listened to - and I worry these discussions are doing more harm to the community than the rankings themselves could. How would you feel about just rolling with it for now and seeing where it takes us? You should ask that to all of the people who are posting "Im not going to a tournament whilst RHQ is up". I think they'll tell you that rolling with it is precisely not what they want. Personally I'm completely happy to roll with it and ignore it until such a time as they (RHQ) implement a ranking system that's worth looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Warrior Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Chucklemonkey, Calmdown and Fenrir all make absolutely valid points. No one’s denying the amount of work that’s been put in on these, the question is, why? To my knowledge no one apart from maybe a few henchmen was asked whether they wanted rankings, I certainly wasn’t, I knew nothing about it until it appeared as essentially a fait accompli. So, why was the idea even brought up? The way it’s been implemented leaves much to be desired in terms of courtesy to the players listed – again, no one was asked if they wanted to be included, we just all were no matter our opinions on rankings. The rankings themselves prove absolutely nothing, other than some people went to a tournament and someone won it, then some different people went to a different tournament in a different part of the country and someone won that, too, they don’t address relative skill in the slightest; to the best of my knowledge I’ve only played in a tournament against one person in the top ten as it stands (and that was a draw), so how does that show that the top ten are better players than me? (They may be, they may not; I’m not making any implications here, just saying the rankings simply don’t address this point in the slightest). One of the alleged pros of the rankings is that they will attract more players, I suspect (and note, this is a personal opinion) that people go to tournaments because they play Malifaux, they don’t play Malifaux because other people go to tournaments. Certainly, this has been my experience in the two clubs I’m a member of. It could well be that a number of people who object to the way rankings have been imposed on them are repeatedly posting simply because the people who are supposed to represent them, ie the henchmen (there are exceptions, but these too seem to be being ignored), are apparently not listening to or addressing their concerns. If you want to try a ranking system, how about asking people if they want it instead of telling them they’re having it? Poll the UK players, if the vote is in favour, then a few other things need to be done: Make it exclusively opt-in Start it from some pre-defined future date, don’t just post lists of previous tournaments without asking. Make sure it reflects player skill, not how many tournaments you can get to There may be others, these are just the ones off the top of my head. The rankings were meant to attract players to a fantastic game system with a great community. How attractive is it when a newcomer sees these sorts of arguments and could easily get the impression that it’s a fractious and unhelpful community (it isn’t, but newcomers don’t know that), or worse that they have no rights to opinions other than what the henchmen tell them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) How would you feel about just rolling with it for now and seeing where it takes us? It's the only option, as Rankings are in now. If you want to try a ranking system, how about asking people if they want it instead of telling them they’re having it? Couldn't agree more Edited August 18, 2011 by Fenrir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Warrior Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 So, is the way to deal with objections to just ignore them until the thread drops off the page? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.