Mako's Crew(s)

[Mako]

Lady J is a bit of an odd one, as the white and black throw off the usual colour choices. For most things, the usual way I pick colours is to have one or two in mind (so for seamus it was green, for misaki yellow and purple, in your case that would be green and purple).

 

I then pick a contrasting secondary colour like red for the black and white - for green/purple I often use brown/cream, as that splits the look of the whole model across the colour wheel.

 

Generally I'll then pick how saturated each colour will be - do you want a strong purple, or just a hint of it in a mostly grey colour. I recommend having a 2:1 split, with two of your colours being desaturated (or saturated), and the other being the opposite. That gives you some contrast in intensity too, and you don't have to have the green and purple be the same level of saturation.

 

The same goes for brightness - pale green, or dark green? pale purple, or dark purple? brown, or cream? Again, having at least pale and one dark colour gives you some contrast that can really help it work.

 

The three things you can change easiest are the specific shade (such as green, blue-green, or brownish green), the brightness (adding pale grey/white or dark grey/black), and the saturation (using it pure, or as a hint in a grey that's the same rough brightness). With those three, you can adjust your scheme to work for all sorts.

 

So you could have a dark green/grey suit, cream shirt and fairly intense mid or dark purple details. Or maybe go for a brown suit with a pale desaturated purple (think lilac) shirt and olive (desaturated, mid brightness green with just a hint of brown) detailing. It really becomes a matter of messing with the different contrasts and where to place the colours until you think you've got the idea you want.

 

There are two ways to go with the shade and highlights for those main colours - I sometimes use blue/black to shade everything, and bonewhite to highlight it all. That ties the colours together nicely as they all have a unified shadow and similar highlight effect.

The other method is to go back through each of your main colours and look at the contrasts you can add in:

With an olive green, the direct contrast colour is probably red or red/purple, so adding a touch of that to the shade will work. It also has the advantage that the purple echoes your other main colour. That gives you quite warm shadows, so the highlight would be good as a colder colour - using white (but not going all the way to white of course) would be a good match. 

For the purple, you'd be more likely looking at a yellow/brown in your shading, again becoming fairly warm so a colder highlight would be good. 

If you used cream/brown, your shadows would be tinted with blue, then a warm bonewhite highlight will be the best contrast.

 

That's probably a lot of confusing stuff, but it comes down to a couple of things:

 

-Pick one or two main colours, and the opposite colour on the wheel (from a point between the two if you have a pair) as a contrast.

-have one of them darker, one mid, and one quite pale (or mid-dark and mid-pale if its just two)

-have one saturated, one desaturated (and one in the middle if you have three)

-either:

shade and highlight them all using the same colours (I like blue/black and bonewhite for that)

look at each colour individually and add the contrast to the shading, then if the shading is warm use cold grey/white to highlight, if it's cold use cream/ivory.

 

I used to make it all up as I painted, but one of the things Jessica Rich suggested to me when I met her was to paint all the colours you might use onto white card, so you can look over them and decide which ones work as a group best. Just be sure to write down the mixes and ratios you used under each swatch!

 

If that's all random gibberish, let me know and I'l try to rephrase it better. Hopefully some of it helps though!

And feel free to ask more questions of course!

[spectrehorseman]

No man, that's been a ton of help. Actually, I started doing the paint on notecard thing today to keep track of combinations that I have found work good together and for future reference.

 

I painted Nicodem before having this knowledge so I might strip him to repaint later. But first I'm gonna paint the rest of the crew first and see how it goes.

 

Another thing i did was mix my cream color into the base colors for highlights. Originally, I had painted his cuffs with screaming skull, but later, I repainted them with zandri dust mixed in, which is also what I mixed into the coat. It seemed like this tied them together better.

 

Thanks a ton dude.

[Mako]

No problem!

 

Always happy to help where I can, I'll look forward to seeing pics of your crew!

[spectrehorseman]

One more question,

 

When you say "If the shading is warm, use cold grey/white as highlight. Do you mean mix grey or white into your primary color to lighten it? and vice versa for warm highlights? you mix the cream into the base color?

[Mako]

Yup, that's exactly it - I never really change my base colour once I start an area, I simply add new stuff to that mix. So my highlights are always just adding white (for cold) or cream (for warm) to that midtone in small amounts each time.

 

Works for more complex stuff too, as you can start by adding orange, then go to adding yellow, then to white just as easily. It gives you a smoother change that way.

[spectrehorseman]

This is just downright frustrating. I've painted the dude's coat 12 times and stripped it inbetween there.  Warhammer was easier because all the mini's were painted already for reference. It's really hard to find any pics at all for Malifaux painted miniatures, let alone well painted ones. 

 

At any rate, thanks for your help. I'll keep at it.

[Mako]

When you get to that point, my usual advice is to not strip it, put it down, and do something else (a different model, or a totally different hobby) for a few days. Then come back to it and see if you want to fix it or strip it. If you still want to strip it, do so, then walk away again for a few days. Only come back to it when you're ready and want to, so you aren't making yourself more frustrated every time.

The other thing would be to prime a sheet of paper with whatever primer you use, and try doing some layers on that. Set up to look like a series of folds rather than just swatches. If you don't like the look of the colour balance or the ratio of shade and highlight, move down an inch and do another. Eventually, you'll hit one you like and can do the same thing on the real version. That's pretty handy when you're messing with new techniques and colours. I do it sometimes when I'm way off my comfort zone and it's a lot easier on the mind than stripping stuff repeatedly!

These things do take a ton of practice, but if you're not enjoying it a short break will probably be more beneficial than keeping on running at that same brick wall...

[spectrehorseman]

Oh yeah, I set that dude down for awhile, lol. Thanks.

[NoHero]

 

There are two ways to go with the shade and highlights for those main colours - I sometimes use blue/black to shade everything, and bonewhite to highlight it all. That ties the colours together nicely as they all have a unified shadow and similar highlight effect.

The other method is to go back through each of your main colours and look at the contrasts you can add in:

With an olive green, the direct contrast colour is probably red or red/purple, so adding a touch of that to the shade will work. It also has the advantage that the purple echoes your other main colour. That gives you quite warm shadows, so the highlight would be good as a colder colour - using white (but not going all the way to white of course) would be a good match. 

For the purple, you'd be more likely looking at a yellow/brown in your shading, again becoming fairly warm so a colder highlight would be good. 

If you used cream/brown, your shadows would be tinted with blue, then a warm bonewhite highlight will be the best contrast.

 

 

So for clarification you would mix red paint into olive green for shading? Thanks for helping us newbies!

[Clawz]

SpectreHorseman: For a lot of the Malifaux stuff (and just models in general) if you can, go the route of most historical painters: Sourcepics!

 

For my part, I tend to collect a folder of dozens of images (my WWII folder at one point was 8 gigs) all filled with inspiration stuff; floral patterns, geisha outfits, kimonos and traditional Japanese/Chinese patterns when I did Ten Thunders, Victorian girls' dresses for Candy, etc.

 

Often times if you can find someone actually wearing a garment that's similar to what you're painting, you'll get exact lighting/shading, colour variance, and vibrancy from a real photo and not have to guess! (Right now I'm playing the colour-scheme game on a bunch of Infinity Nomads, trying to find the exact combination I want.)

Nohero: Opposites on the colour wheel, for pigmentation, will 'cancel' each other out, making them black or dark brown. Adding an opposing colour is a way to achieve a shaded look without using black or white. While black and white are often the technically correct method (blue-black most imitates shadows, warm-white is most like sunlight), using a contrasting colour will 'liven up' the shadows by making them feel richer, and keeping the overall colour seem purer.

 

Not to geek out too much on colour theory, but our eyes [brains] are trained to see the colour harmonies on the wheel. A scheme that's almost entirely in, say, the green range with a bit of yellow will seem 'wrong', in a way you can't quite put your finger on. The same scheme with say, an orange-red visor, or a spot of blood on the sword, and all of a sudden your eyes [brain] goes "ahh, that's better".

 

Also, be wary with the red paint: Only a little, and not too bright a red: the idea is to slightly influence, not overpower! Then you get pearlescent colour-change garbs, or just the worst 'bleh'.

[spectrehorseman]

I tried painting Mortimer's jacket with Death World Forest and Elysian Green (which is sort of a sickly kind of green). I shaded with Burnt Red (vallejo) and it just didn't look right.  I painted over it and went with a pale khaki. I then shaded this with shadow grey (which is a blue) and again, the color just didn't seem right.  I think in the end, I'm just gonna go with brown for the coat or maybe a dark flesh (which should seem velvety).

 

Mako's tips for shading and highlighting with cold/warm colors was very helpful as well as mixing in the cold/warm color for highlights onto your base color. I was painting the traditional 3 color method by picking 3 different colors of green(or whatever color) and layering them. I think sticking with the main color and working that up/down will help out a lot.

 

At first I tried painting off the source material artwork for the character but I couldn't get that to work right either.  I'll look up some old photos and see what I can find. Thanks.

 

I found this when I was looking around too, if it is any help for people

 

https://kuler.adobe.com/create/color-wheel/

[Mako]

Gad I could help! Setting your midtone and working away from it slowly is the best way I've found to work with contrasts and colour theory. Just takes time and practice to get it working for you, unfortunately.

So for clarification you would mix red paint into olive green for shading? Thanks for helping us newbies!

Yes, but only a tiny bit. I'll often use brown with a little red in it to shade greens (again, adding it in small amounts to the midtone) as green and red turns brown anyway; I just nudge the colour a little further towards the contrast.

The other thing to watch for is the exact position of your midtone on the wheel - a yellowy green (or olive) wants more of a red-purple shade, while a blue-green benefits more from an orangey brown.

Generally, I'll add black and my contrast colours into my midtone together, but only a little bit of each for every layer. Black is very easy to overdo, and then you lose all the subtle contrasts that are meant to make a tiny crease look like a real sized fold...

[spectrehorseman]

As I was researching, I found another article that offered a challenge.  And that was to pick a blue, red and yellow, then make your own color wheel out of that by mixing only those colors and the subsequent ones.  This sounds like a great exercise for understanding how colors work together.

[Clawz]

Hah, those are always a good idea (gives me flashbacks of OCAD though...) I will resist the urge to give advice on that; it's better to learn on one's own. Good luck and happy experimentation!

[Mako]

Primary colour challenge is a very good way to learn how to balance out your colours, I know a lot of the guys I got painting advice from over the years recommend it now and then just for the change of pace.

[spectrehorseman]

Just as a quick review to see if I understand correctly.

 

Zandri Dust appears to have a yellow brown in it. So this is a warm color. It should be shaded with a purple (to complement the yellow) and then highlight with a cold grey/white?

 

 

While, Screaming Skull is more of a colder color and should be shaded with a Cool Blue?  And then highlighted with a warm cream?

 

 

 

I need to get my hands on some more pale colors like this, I have a ton of browns, greens, blues, but not much pale. I have currently Ushabti Bone, Screaming Skull, Zandri Dust, Pallid Wych Flesh.

 

I'm working on transitioning over to Vallejo, any selections for pale in that range I should get? I want some more beige too

[Mako]

Honestly, the ones I tend to use are VGC (game colour) bonewhite and Khaki, then VMC (model colour) Deck tan. That's pretty much it. The khaki and bonewhite are my go to warm highlights (for darker and lighter colours respectively), while the deck tan is a grey/cream that's great as a non-white cold highlight.

 

Both of those tow you've mentioned are relatively warm I'd say (though not hot, like reds) - Screaming skull looks kind of like a paler version of the Zandri dust. As its not a true yellow but a yellow-brown, you'd possibly be looking at a blue/purple to shade it. Which really means you could use purple, blue, or a mix of both.

 

Very pale colours are tricky, as there's very little above skull like colours to highlight with - you're pretty much stuck with white or offwhite. If you want an overall warm look, use that kind of cream colour and shade with browns, if you want cold use deck tan or something like it (cold grey) and shade with blues. Either way, you finish your highlights with white but the mid and shade colours will vary to change the feel of it.

[spectrehorseman]

This has been a ton of help. I can already tell a difference in how I'm thinking towards attacking the model. Much appreciated!

[Mako]

It's what I do  

 

Seriously, half the fun of painting is discussing it and trading tricks and tips. No one really knows close to half of what there is to know, so there's always something to learn!

[Clawz]

my absolute favourite highlight colour is Vallejo Pale Sand. It's a.. pale parchment colour (think very white sandy beaches) and seems to perfectly imitate natural sunlight highlighting most of the time. It also doesn't seem to have a diffusing effect that black and white tend to make (muting the colour overall).

 

It is truly amazing, with whites especially, how the most subtle difference somewhere along the way will make the effect look totally different. I've heard (from school) that supposedly Canadians are more attuned to subtle shifts in grey (thanks to our winters, I presume).

 

Let me echo thoroughly what Mako's said about painting: Whenever someone laments their inability to do it, I like to remind them that the grand majority is knowing which tricks to apply when, and picking them up from anywhere. Sadly some folks make it into a "this is the right way", (just try starting a thread over what primer colour folks use...) but it's amazing how many things you'll learn just flipping through a painting magazine. Even if you decide you don't want to do it yourself, it'll influence your thinking.

 

Also, link us to your painting thread when you get the chance! I'm curious to see where this is all going, even if it is work you ultimately reject!

[spectrehorseman]

Thanks, will do. I'm finishing up my Nicodem base right now and that will give me the opportunity to layout what my plans are for all the factions. I'll make a thread soon.

 

I'll look for that color too. I did see a Vallejo Iraqi Sand and almost picked that up but changed my mind.

 

Primer paint has gotten way out of hand on the price. I started using Sandable Primer from Autozone, lol. And then laying down a first coat of Vallejo German Black/Brown to fill in the mottled look of primer paints. It seems to be working great so far.

[Mako]

 I've heard (from school) that supposedly Canadians are more attuned to subtle shifts in grey (thanks to our winters, I presume).

 

As a PhD biochemist (who looked at it in classes), the human eye actually can differentiate the most shades of green (hence night vision goggles being green tinted often). Greyscale sensitivity is, from what I remember, basically set by the genetic makeup of rod cells; a country with a high immigration level does not have a distinct enough genetic profile for that to be anything other than a random individual trait. Only max/min sensitivity is likely to change based on environment, and that will shift dependant on season. It's not like the winters here are any worse then large chunks of New England, Japan, Russia, Scandinavia, Greenland... so a large chunk of the world would also have that ability if it were the case.

 

Basically, colour acuity and greyscale sensitivity is pretty wildly scattered across everyone.

 

Just as a little mythbusting moment there.

[Clawz]

Iraqi sand is a lot more.. tan, than pale sand. Pale sand is very much like the old "Bleached bone" colour Citadel used to make. I've got Iraqi for when I get around to doing my LRDG dudes, and two tubes of Pale for when I run out of the first.

 

My suspicion about the prof's assertion with Canadians and grey was more a psychological than physiological thing, based on our painting (group of seven era and thereabouts) as compared to other regional painting styles. Also, not to nitpick too much, but mythbusting would require more rigorous study: It would be fascinating, now I think about it, to see if Northern peoples are more attuned to grey shifts, in the way that one isolated branch of humanity has super-vision underwater. (Not supervision, though hopefully they have that as well.)

 

...Hold the phone, just reread that SpectreHorseman: ALL factions? Surely you're not getting everything!

[edonil]

This whole Canada and grey thing is starting to derail an excellent thread to no avail. It seems something far more that belongs in a random thread in General Discussion, or, better yet, just dropped altogether.

[NoHero]

Honestly, the ones I tend to use are VGC (game colour) bonewhite and Khaki, then VMC (model colour) Deck tan. That's pretty much it. The khaki and bonewhite are my go to warm highlights (for darker and lighter colours respectively), while the deck tan is a grey/cream that's great as a non-white cold highlight.

 

Both of those tow you've mentioned are relatively warm I'd say (though not hot, like reds) - Screaming skull looks kind of like a paler version of the Zandri dust. As its not a true yellow but a yellow-brown, you'd possibly be looking at a blue/purple to shade it. Which really means you could use purple, blue, or a mix of both.

 

Very pale colours are tricky, as there's very little above skull like colours to highlight with - you're pretty much stuck with white or offwhite. If you want an overall warm look, use that kind of cream colour and shade with browns, if you want cold use deck tan or something like it (cold grey) and shade with blues. Either way, you finish your highlights with white but the mid and shade colours will vary to change the feel of it.

 

Really love Vallejo's Bone White for an off white. Also a huge fan of their Ochre Brown.