New to the Game, Fairly Confused And Needing Guidance (Outcasts)

[Joasht]

I've never really paid too much attention to the game as the first few releases (when the game first came out) never caught my attention, but with the expansion of the range it seems fairly appealing to me now.

I've pretty much narrowed down to either the Guild or Outcasts, so I've opened a thread here in the Outcast forum and one in the Guild forum to get feedback from players of their respective factions.

I'll just list my questions in point form:

1) How big are games, usually? I.e. roughly how many figures?

2) I'm fairly curious about why there are so many sub-factions in each faction; can they work together, is there a benefit for sticking to just one, and what are the playstyles of each of the subfactions in the Outcasts?

3) How balanced is the game, overall?

4) How do the Outcasts compare to the Guild?

Thanks!

[osoi]

I've never really paid too much attention to the game as the first few releases (when the game first came out) never caught my attention, but with the expansion of the range it seems fairly appealing to me now.

I've pretty much narrowed down to either the Guild or Outcasts, so I've opened a thread here in the Outcast forum and one in the Guild forum to get feedback from players of their respective factions.

First off welcome, I do play some guild (mainly in demos but I now have a fairly extensive range covering Lady Justice and Hoffman) as well as the Outcasts (Leveticus, Von Schill and the Viktorias) and saw this thread first so I will comment here.

I'll just list my questions in point form:

1) How big are games, usually? I.e. roughly how many figures?

Generally about half a dozen figures to maybe about a dozen with a swarm type master but thats a t a pretty decent game size too. You will often find most of the mercenary outcasts are a little more expensive but they are great.

2) I'm fairly curious about why there are so many sub-factions in each faction; can they work together, is there a benefit for sticking to just one, and what are the playstyles of each of the subfactions in the Outcasts?

Thsi is a big one for the outcasts. For other factions minion cross over between the 'subfactions' can be quite prolific and advantageous in the outcasts you do have definate sub groups all pursuing their own agenda so not much cross over.

1. Mercenaries: Viktorias and Von Schill as master and Henchen respectively. Very versitile in what they can hire being mercs and have the upside that they can be hired into other factions as well. Usually a little more straightforward but there is also a lot of depth and variety in their playstyle, you can take a good mix of nasty up close models and ranged options. Usually smaller crews due to a higher amount of unique named models.

2. Desolate and Soulless: Leveticus as the master, he is a steampunk necromancer and can hire out of faction any construct and/or undead so a huge pool of models to choose from, he is a one man apocalypse who tries to kill himself every turn and then he gets brought back to life. Huge offensive power and a bit of a learning curve but a very solid master.

3. Hamelin teh Plagued - think the pied piper on steroids I dont play Hamelin and am not looking at picking him up in the frseeable future so I will let others detail him a little more. He is a powerful master

4. Gremlins. Somer Teeth Jones and Ophelia La Croix as Master and Henchman for this sub faction. thes guys are a blastm, I dont own them but have played against a gew gremlin players. They swarm and provide onw of the most powerful gunlines in the game, always good for a laugh and can be quite powerful on ce some of their tricks have been learnt

3) How balanced is the game, overall?

I would say very balanced overall as the game is not dependant on just killing your opponents models, you can win the game even if you are wiped out to a man if you can claim your objectives and stop them from completeing theirs. the fact that you choose your crew after you have found out your strategy (main objective) means a lot less rock paper scissors and enables you to tailor your crew some what to the mission at hand. Heaps to go on about here but I thought I would keep it brief.

4) How do the Outcasts compare to the Guild?

Thanks!

Hard one here, have a read of what the guild guys say about themselves and compare it to here. The guild are almost the 'anti' faction in theat they have specific master who specialise more in combating other specific factions (not saying that they cant go against their non preffered faction just that they each have a few abilities that gear them more towards taking out a specific one).

With the outcasts you will have a motly crew and it can give you an opputunity to expand into other factions if you desire.

Anyway hope that all this wasnt just rambling and made some sense

[Joasht]

I've been browsing a little, and it seems like Hamelin is one of those "higher on the power curve" masters out there. How does he play?

[ispep]

I've been browsing a little, and it seems like Hamelin is one of those "higher on the power curve" masters out there. How does he play?

If these forums are any indication, you put him on the table, your opponent throws a tantrum, packs his models backs up, and starts a thread about how broken Hamelin is.

[Joasht]

If these forums are any indication, you put him on the table, your opponent throws a tantrum, packs his models backs up, and starts a thread about how broken Hamelin is.

Haha nah, I've been wargaming for 15 years, such things happen all the time. Sometimes they are legitly overpowered, but often its just crying cuddle.

The main reason I'm asking is actually because I'm actually a fan of rats....I have Skaven, and used to spam Dire Rats in DDM

[osoi]

He not that bad but you really have to focus on a different way to take him down as opposed to other masters

[Drake]

The main thing about Hamelin is that he can make any enemy model Insignificant, As can a couple of other models in his crew. So he can prevent several models from being able to do things that require being significant, like interacting with objectives and counting for things like Reconnoiter and Claim Jump.

The second half of this ability is that, if you are insignificant, you cannot target hamelin, meaning he becomes almost immune to insignificant models. That is annoying on its own, but he also has a ability that means that aslong as you are within 12" of Hamelin, you can only attack him, which combined with the above means he completely shuts down any models within 12" of him whilst insignificant.

I wont comment on whether he is "broken". That has been discussed in great detail elsewhere here...but what I will say is he can be defeated, I have achieved a win against him and against arguably one of the best UK players using him, narrow 5-4 victory but victory none the less.

Main thing to bear in mind, even more so against Hamelin than a lot of Masters, is knowing how he and his crew works. Once you know that, you can combat him. If you dont, you will get caught out and probably crushed.

[Necromorph]

@ Drake

See, normally I appreciate your outlook on Hamelin, but in this case I feel you're being a bit misleading. I won't go into details, but he's not quite THAT powerful. Basically, yes he can do those things, but not to that extent/degree. Also, he's not talking about how to beat Hamelin, but what is good about playing him. Not trying to be a douche, but whenever a new player asks about Hamelin, we don't need someone jumping in and saying "OMG OMG, he's soooooo OP and broken, don't play him because he's invincible and no one will want to play you!!?!" I know you're not doing that, but IMO it was still a somewhat disheartening post for a new player (unless ofc he's a heartless bastard and his motive is to piss people off, haha).

@ OP

If you like swarms of rats (kinda the reason I started him) he's a damn good master. He is a little bit strong right now, and some people will b!tch about you playing him, but hey, he's a master in the game and if he was that broken they would have errata'd him already (well they did on his Indiscriminate Void ability, but I don't have the link).

The one downside to actually playing Hamelin is that you have a very limited selection of models to choose from, but he still has a number of competitive builds using some models that aren't specifically "his." I like him a lot.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Necromorph

[Joasht]

Just curious, given that the Outcasts don't (seem to) work together much, does this gimp them against other factions?

[Ratty]

Haha nah, I've been wargaming for 15 years, such things happen all the time. Sometimes they are legitly overpowered, but often its just crying nerf.

The main reason I'm asking is actually because I'm actually a fan of rats....I have Skaven, and used to spam Dire Rats in DDM

Rats are great... All worship their furry awesomeness... However Hamelin is an evil taskmaster with no thoughts for his Mindless Zom-Rats.... All true rodents should rise up and destroy this interloper and free our kind.

[Ratty]

Just curious, given that the Outcasts don't (seem to) work together much, does this gimp them against other factions?

Definitely not, in some ways they have a huge advantage, while most faction have a defining characteristic every Outcast is very different which makes it much harder for your opponent to pick a crew to fight them. What can deal with swarms of gremlins, can't necessarily deal with elite mercenaries.

The downside of this is you will need more models to get multiple crews running than you will need with a faction like Guild that can share models between Masters.

[Sandwich]

I've never really paid too much attention to the game as the first few releases (when the game first came out) never caught my attention, but with the expansion of the range it seems fairly appealing to me now.

I've pretty much narrowed down to either the Guild or Outcasts, so I've opened a thread here in the Outcast forum and one in the Guild forum to get feedback from players of their respective factions.

I'll just list my questions in point form:

1) How big are games, usually? I.e. roughly how many figures?

2) I'm fairly curious about why there are so many sub-factions in each faction; can they work together, is there a benefit for sticking to just one, and what are the playstyles of each of the subfactions in the Outcasts?

3) How balanced is the game, overall?

4) How do the Outcasts compare to the Guild?

Thanks!

1. In the average game both crews will have around 6 models. Some crews, like Resurrectionist crews, will increase this number.

If you play Hamelin, you will start with around 9. This will increase throughout the game.

2. It's both fluff and a restriction mechanic.

Some models are simply not meant to work together as they would be gamebreaking.

As such there are 5 different factions.

Outcasts and three specific models aside, models from each faction can only be taken with masters of their respective faction.

3. Crews are very imbalanced and broken.

This is however negated because of the "Strategies and Schemes" mechanic that allows each crew to play to its own strengths and weaknesses in a game individually.

Ergo, you need not bring in the heaviest of hitters to win a game.

4. They're even to underpowered compared to guild.

Any outcast master is going to have an easy time against Lady Justice in most cases, because they're resilient and do enough damage to stand toe to toe with her.

The guild Executioner is a massive thorn in the side of anyone, though.

Sonia Criid will wreck just about any Outcast if she's played competantly.

She has dispels, counterspells, ranged damage and AoE, so even the Vickies will get pounded hard.

Perdita is a tossup, because she has the kit to handle practically anyone, but it seems as though Bishop can destroy her entire crew single handedly.

It's just personal opinion.

C.Hoffman is powerful, but only if allowed to do so.

He thrives on small model count, powerful model concotion.

But so do the Vicks, so there's that.

[Joasht]

Quick question, whats the size of the base of the Dog that comes with Hamelin?

[Serigala]

Quick question, whats the size of the base of the Dog that comes with Hamelin?

30mm I think.

[Adanedhel]

actually, Nix comes on a 40mm base