Hardlec Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Tarot decks were created in about the 14th century for games and divination. It is believed Napoleon played solitaire with Tarot cards on Elba. As Tarot cards branched off to the standard playing cards, playing cards and more specialist Tarot decks were all used for divination: casting fortunes. Prior to Rider-Waite, there was considerable variation between Tarot decks. Almost all were custom, one off works of art. Since Rider-Waite, it has become a standard template, although it need not be. For Malifaux, using the fate deck as a divination tool as well as a game aid has a certain attraction. Divination spreads could be used to create story lines for fiction, campaigns or scenarios. It could also be used to generate characters and or character personalities for a role play game. A couple of issues: Use the existing 54 cards or create a major arcana (trumps?) {Technically, the existing Jokers are Major Arcana} If a major arcana is created, how many cards will it have? Rider-Waite has 56 minor arcana and 22 major arcana, 78 cards. My personal preference would be to use the existing 54 cards only; adding 15 or 20 major arcana cards, say, the masters and henchmen of the 5 factions, might be more fun. I would print cards with pictures on one side, text on the other, and use them in card protectors, using the backs for "notes." What say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 It sounds like a interesting idea for you to try out. Not sure I'd try it myself, but it'd put a different take on the game. It's also worth mentioning that the Romani also used divination and playing cards long before the tarot existed, seeing how they originated from Egypt (a very long time ago) they could also be the source of tarot. My personal tarot deck usually contains more than 78 cards, but I did make it myself and added things like Focus cards (to better symbolise the person being read) and added a extra suit that I could swap in and out, plus additional major arcana cards. It was a very interesting project that took me a few years to complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardlec Posted May 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 So: if I take the existing deck and use it for spreads, that will be a start. How would it be best to put so much info on this message board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 It sounds like a interesting idea for you to try out. Not sure I'd try it myself, but it'd put a different take on the game. It's also worth mentioning that the Romani also used divination and playing cards long before the tarot existed, seeing how they originated from Egypt (a very long time ago) they could also be the source of tarot. My personal tarot deck usually contains more than 78 cards, but I did make it myself and added things like Focus cards (to better symbolise the person being read) and added a extra suit that I could swap in and out, plus additional major arcana cards. It was a very interesting project that took me a few years to complete. If you'd be willing to share your project, I'd love to take a look at it. I'm really into the Tarot (and all of its correspondences), so I'd love to see what you came up with. Seeing as it is a personal project, I'd understand if you didn't want to share, but if you do I'd love to see it To Hardlec, if you were to stick with the current Malifaux Fate deck, you'd be missing 4 of the Minor Arcana as well as the Major. Each suit in the Minor Arcana has 10 small cards (A-10) and 4 court cards (Princess,Prince, Queen, King). Each suit in Malifaux only has 13 cards, so you'd need to add another minor to each suit before making the majors. Honestly, if you were to do any sort of divinatory work with the fate deck, I'd recommend grabbing the puppet deck, going from the fluff of the characters on each of the cards and assigning meanings that way. That way it remains standard (IE people don't have to make new cards to use it), and you don't have to try to make it fit around an existing system (Tarot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 I may have some of the original roughs online, I'll have to take a look for it. Heading off to hunt... Yep, I found a few on Photobucket (I keep forgetting I have that account), there are just some of the sketches I did before the final pieces (which were all inked instead of penciled). I won't post the actual pics, just links to them as some might be a little large Mistress (AKA - Queen) of Staves http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/MistressofStavesMod1a.jpg Lilith (focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/Lilith.jpg Nemain (focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/NemainV.jpg The Crow Maiden (major arcana 31/focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/TheCrowMaiden.jpg The Empress (instead of High Priestess) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/TheEmpressV.jpg The Witch (alt. High Priestess/focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/TheWitch.jpg Gwyn ap Nudd (focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/GwynapNudd.jpg Two of Staves http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/2ofStaves.jpg The finished ones were also better drawn (I'd forgotten how rough the initial sketches were), I'll try and get some scanned at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardlec Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 While rider-waite has become a standard; 14 cards and 4 minor arcana suits, 22+1 in the Major arcana, this was not always so. Cards used to be hand drawn and individual works of art. There is no need to make a Fate-Tarot deck conform to old restraints. Why not have 13 cards in 4 suits and 2 major arcana? Why not have 26 major arcana instead of 2? This is a different world after all. LonelyPath's work is excellent. The fate deck is not congruent to a "standard" deck in other ways. Rams/hearts/cups or masks/diamonds/pentacles is not all that congruent in symbology. I used to cast tarot spreads to give my fictional characters personality. I also used cards, runes and even the I Ching to push the plot in directions I wouldn't have come up with. Lots of potential still untapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure you can make it work as an oracle deck. My main concern is in making it work as a tarot deck. I'm a student of the Golden Dawn tradition, and from that I've come to appreciate the 78 card Tarot deck because of all the correspondences it works with. Ever since Eliphas Levi attributed the 22 Trumps to the Hebrew alphabet, the Tarot has fit quite nicely into the world of Qabalistic correspondences. I won't go into specifics (unless you'd prefer to hear them), but suffice it to say, I feel that leaving out 4 minors and 20 majors makes for a dreadfully incomplete system as far as the Tarot is concerned. I'm not saying that there is only one way to read/interperet Tarot, but when you take out 30% of the deck, for me it's really hard to consider it still reading Tarot. That's why I suggested not trying to make it fit as a Tarot deck, but to design a different oracular system around the Fate deck. Edited May 31, 2011 by Allidor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I may have some of the original roughs online, I'll have to take a look for it. Heading off to hunt... Yep, I found a few on Photobucket (I keep forgetting I have that account), there are just some of the sketches I did before the final pieces (which were all inked instead of penciled). I won't post the actual pics, just links to them as some might be a little large Mistress (AKA - Queen) of Staves http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/MistressofStavesMod1a.jpg Lilith (focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/Lilith.jpg Nemain (focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/NemainV.jpg The Crow Maiden (major arcana 31/focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/TheCrowMaiden.jpg The Empress (instead of High Priestess) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/TheEmpressV.jpg The Witch (alt. High Priestess/focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/TheWitch.jpg Gwyn ap Nudd (focus card) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/GwynapNudd.jpg Two of Staves http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/brainspider/Tarot/2ofStaves.jpg The finished ones were also better drawn (I'd forgotten how rough the initial sketches were), I'll try and get some scanned at some point. These are great! I really admire people who can make their own decks. Have you seen the Shadowscapes Tarot by Stephanie Pui-Mun Law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardlec Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have a very subjective dislike for the art in the puppet deck. I don't own one although I've seen it many times. Putting in a major Arcana would be a major asset. While I am sure I can design cards for the project, I have no graphic art skills: I would be limited to common domain art I can download. Like the Golden Path Tarot, which is not "another rider-waite clone" I want the Malifaux game/world the focus. One option: a 108 card "double deck" as a game aid and oracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyPath Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 These are great! I really admire people who can make their own decks. Have you seen the Shadowscapes Tarot by Stephanie Pui-Mun Law? Thanks (and also thanks to Hardlec). I've not seen that tarot deck, but I'll be sure to go look for it. While I use my own I collect decks on and off and not added any to my collection for a while The finished cards were also much better drawn, those sketches were produced to give me a idea of how I wanted them to look before starting on the finished pieces. I went through about 2 years of sketching ideas and then a year or so to do all the finished art. It was a mammoth project that involved around 120 pieces of art plus something to put on the back (in the end I settled on a dual pentacle to keep it simple, lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Slightly off topic and a bit of a necro, but I found this Steampunk Tarot deck the other day that is perfect for Malifaux. http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?38331-Steampunk-Tarot-Deck-as-Fate-Deck&p=495920#post495920 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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