Slaughtered by Kirai

[RotatingPanda]

Valid question and I guess I should address that. Shortly after he responded, we actually spoke on the phone for 15 or so minutes and cleared the air on everything. I, admittedly, was venting a bit and was "gun shy" about WAAC players as my local group had a very bad experience with one (we're talking borderline violence bad) last year.

So, with my prejudice against WAAC players (which he is most definitely not) coupled with lack of experience and frustration at getting utterly crushed and feeling powerless against his crew led to me desperately scrambling to figure out what I was supposed to do in future games against that crew while figuring out how I would handle another potential WAAC player in my personal life.

Luckily, the forums gave me pointers on dealing with Kirai and his phone call let me see that I reacted poorly and we smoothed things over. I'm usually more level-headed than this but once bitten, twice shy, especially when violence is on the line, you know?

Also, it turns out the proxy issue was reflect in our respective backgrounds: he played/plays Magic the Gathering in which, apparently, you can proxy cards you already own in order to protect expensive cards from wear and tear whereas I come from a 40K background in which no one outside of tournaments thinks twice about proxying.

So, HeavySet and I spoke and there is no bad blood between us and we're planning a rematch pretty much as soon as we're both free. I may even write a narrative battle report for it, depending on how easy he goes on me

P.S. I still hate his crew though. Stupid little gardener...

[Ratty]

A few little points of note.

If you are going to proxy something you don't have and you know in advance, print out the v2 card for it (See the bar to the left for a link to them). That way you will both know your playing with the most up to date versions of the model.

Everyone thinks about Spirit as being some huge defensive measure that Kirai has over other Ressurectionist Masters. I would disagree heavily, most undead have Hard to Wound and more Wds to boot than their spirit equivilent. Spirits will most of the time go down as fast as a normal undead. Their major benefit is that they are faster moving. This is what you need to look at neutralising to beat them. If you can pick off spirits that get isolated from Kirai, that way she won't get Seishin back, also most importantly she won't have that spirit to use for maneuvering. If she doesn't have Seishin Beacon activated try to pick off any Seishin that are around her.

The other thing to note is Kirai is a Finesse Master, she hugely relies on wierd combos and very precise positioning to win. This can lead people that play against her to feel that the player is a WAAC player, largely caused by her complexity.

This is a quite common activation for her.

• I pull back 1 Seishin to Kirai at the end of your Activation
  
• I eat it to get 2 cards and fast
  
• I into the Spirit World with Kirai which makes me a Spirit
  
• I summon Ikiryo out 6" of my position.
  
• I Sooth Spirit myself to heal some of the cost to summon Ikiryo.
  
• I swap Kirai with a Seishin as she's now a Spirit to get her out of danger.
  
• I pull the Seishin back to me, to get it out of danger at the end of the activation.
  

Compared to

• I buff Lady Justice with sword style
  
• I charge enemy.
  
• I hit them some more.
  

Edited May 23, 2011 by Ratty

[greenbull]

@RotatingPanda: glad you both could sort things out!

@Ratty: with all the experience you have with Kirai, you should write a tactica ! But I guess the one thing missing is time?:ballchain

[Adran]

Kirai is a tricky master to face until you realise what she can do. You will find this with several of the masters, playing against them is almost a different game. Once you have done it a few times you know what to do, but when you first face them everything you thought you had learned goes out the window.

The deathmarshall crew out of the box will have some difficulties in killing all those spirits, but that is rarely required. Focus on your mission.

If you do have to kill the spirits, with the amount of healing that a Kirai crew can hand out, you want to focus on one threat at a time. Seshin are very useful to her, so focus on killing them early if you can. Try not to shoot any models with immeadiate revenge until you have killed all the ones without it.

The Shikome will have to start out focused on one of your models. If you can shield that model from it then it can't do anything.

The lost love gives a huge amount of protection to Kirai, so if you can get it early it is very useful. Expect it to be well protected.

Lone Gaki are not all that scary. When they start getting groups of them, then make sure that they are broken up, but they can't devour ht 2 models until there are 3 of them together (I think).

Its not a sure-fire way but it will help. and, as other people have said, the guild has some models that will really help the crew out against them. There is some degree of Rock, paper, scissors in the game, and Lady Justice comes with a very Rock crew, where as Kirai is very much paper. Adding some scissors models will make this an easier match up (But probably make other ones harder).

When you play a spirit heavy crew and run into someone with a large selection of magic weapons or spell attacks (scissor models in my current example), you have a very similar feeling.

I would suggest playing them again, and you will probaly find that the tricks are still hard, but not completly unexpected, and you'll be able to counter some of them.

Other masters that play very diffently include The dreamer, Leveticus, Pandora, Hamelin and Colette. They can be beaten but you need tactics specific to countering those crews. Expect the first time you play against them to discover some completly outragous tricks you never expected possible.

Hope that helps.

Phil

Phil

[RotatingPanda]

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the general summary of what her and her dirty spirits can do. My big problem was throwing everything at one model (and taking wounds in return, thanks to IR) and then having it get healed before I could finish it off. Oh, and his Shikome killed my Judge on turn 2, earning him 2 VP.

There's already a Dreamer in my group and my brother is picking up Leveticus this week. So, yeah, goody goody gum drops?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Beat way to kill Kirai in my experience is not actually try to kill her directly but to kill her models as models go down so does her availability to summon more. She loses more wounds and seshin per death.

I partially agree with ratty on how spirits are not as tough as people think. With a high damage output crew like Lady J they have an easier time killing spirits than say Lilth crew. Lady J crew averages moderate damage is 4-5 with critical strike, to a spirit that is quite a hit. Not to mention if he leaves a spirit out away from her bubble if Lady J kills it early in activation your crew with get the +2cb and really have a hard time making anything.

I'm interested to hear about your next rematch.

[Hookers]

• I summon Ikiryo out 12" of my position.
  

fixed

[Ratty]

fixed

lol... yeah could do...

These days my favourite trick is going into the spirit world, summoning Ikiryo out to 12" then slit my own wrists to gain 2 cards and come back as a spirit with 6Wds*, then swirl out and soothe myself for a healing flip.

*as you sacrifice the model and bring it back as a spirit with 4Wds before you get the 2Wds and cards.

[Adran]

There's already a Dreamer in my group and my brother is picking up Leveticus this week. So, yeah, goody goody gum drops?

I wouldn't worry about it, you'll end up facing them at some point, so you might as well get it over and done with early. Once you have faced them and seen what they do you can learn to counter it.

When you have learned how to beat those three you'll be very well placed to work out how to handle any crew.

[RotatingPanda]

Sweet, I get a trial by fire. Nothing like a learning curve that goes straight up, hey? Although, after reading his rules, my brother thinks Leveticus will probably come with his own steep learning curve.

Every time I talk about this game, I get more and more excited for the future of it.

[hippieshopper]

Levi is indeed a bit of a trick to learn, but so is Kirai.

The Dreamer isn't too bad if you know what an Alpha Strike is and how burying models works.

One of Levi's weaknesses is his reliance on his Hollow Waifs. He dies a lot and comes back by sacrificing them and teleporting to their location so if you can manage to pop his Waifs and finish him off, you can take him out.

Although that is not as easy as it sounds if they know what they are doing.

The Dreamer's is a bit different, you want to SPREAD OUT!

He will just drop is buddies on you like a ton of bricks and take you out, so moving around is the best way to avoid this.

Kirai's weakness is non living models or magical weapons. Sonnia, Rasputina, or anything without a pulse are your best bet.

I am only saying these things based on the way people play at my LGS so I am sure a lot of other people will disagree...but regardless...that's my opinion so take what you will from it.

[heavyset]

So you up for the rematch?