Viktoria tactica request

[PwnyBownz]

Hiya, gang.

I've been playing the Vikkies but I can't seem to get my crew to work. I either have a terrible hand or my soul stones get immediately soaked by casting masters pwning me, or Remi one-shotting me from across the table and having to resort to 2nd turn damage prevention and healing flips.

I know the Viks shouldn't be on the front line, but sometimes it just happens.

I'm facing all ranged and caster crews, mostly Nicodem, Mcmourning, Rasputina, and the OP LaCroix clan.

The only game I've won legitimately was by switching the Vikkies on turn four and bringing the Vik carrying the evidence back into my deployment zone.

What I'm asking is if anyone can point me to a link that already has some comprehensive tactica or adding your own two cents. I picked up Malifaux because I really suck at 40k.

I don't want to suck at Malifaux too!!! Help!

Here's what I have. Most games I've played have been in the 30ss range.

Vikkies

Ronin x3

Student of conflict

Convict Gunslinger

Masaki

Taelor

Hans

Thanks!

[NeverEnding]

This is a good list but the only thing that I can say is missing in the Freikorps Librarian. The Viks have an ability that allows them to let a spell effect both of them and if you leave Gun Vik by the Librarian you can use Furious Casting to heal the Viks 3 times. That way you can reserve your soulstones for when your taking out obnoxious masters or when you really need them for defense. The list I have been using for them is as follows:

Viks

Taelor

Convict Gunslinger

Librarian

at 25 SS that leaves you with an extra 4 that the Viks NEED to have, depending on what your opponent is doing you could even take just one scheme and get an extra 2 SS.

[PwnyBownz]

Yeah, I've had my eye on the vonschill box for a while now. That furious healing sounds like just what I need. Thanks!

What do you mean by taking schemes to get soulstones?

[NeverEnding]

P 72. on the rules manual pdf says that "Players may choose to select fewer than the maximum number of schemes for their encounter size. Each scheme not selected adds 2 soulstones to the players soulstone pool."

Convict gunslinger is a great model and I always keep him around in my Outcast crews. Faster'n You has won games for me.

[PwnyBownz]

Holy $%#! Well that changes a lot of things. Guess I should read the book more thoroughly.

[NeverEnding]

That was my reaction too. The Viks need soulstones more than most masters I would say, because they get used up twice as fast. And being able to give them the extra two is soooo helpful. Also how are you using them when it comes to their activations?

[PwnyBownz]

Well, I try to get a good screen of Ronin going with harmless and move through cover and once I've intiated combat, fast the Viks into the fray with student of conflict. Gun Vik leads does a strike or pops a buff, then gets switched for sword vik, who depending on the suits in my hand does the whirlwind bit. Convict Gunslinger sits on objectives to slow people up, and Taelor takes to the front lines and pushes people back. That's what I've come up with that can actually kill a couple of models...

[Distaff]

Your pool of models looks pretty solid, other than a lack of librarian who is almost a little too good with the Viks .

For 30 SS I would go:

Viks

Taelor

Ronin

Gunslinger

1 of : Misaki or Librarian

5 SS

Depending on Weather you take Misaki or the Librarian your crews play style changes. With Misaki you're trying to spread you opponents fire by presenting so many threats that they can't deal with them all effectively. any of the Viks Taelor and Misaki will all beat any shooty/casty crews faces in if they make it to melee range and the gunslinger will annoy them with suppressing fire, and has the potential just blast away a minion a turn with rapid fire/trigger happy so they can't ignore him either. heck even the Ronin is no slouch with its ability to push through enemy lines and attack weaker models hiding in the back. Depending on terrain and deployment, you'll probably lose stuff going in, maybe even one of the Viks but once you get there, the results will be... gratifying.

If the Librarian is included you'll end up focusing much more on the Viks. Since you're down to 4 Attacking models for your initial push (Sword Vik, Taelor, Ronin and Gunslinger. Gun Vik is probably sticking close to the librarian to act as a healing target for her sister) the enemy fire is going to be much more concentrated, and probably Taelor or the Gunsliger will go down before you make it to Melee range. However baring horrid cards and black Jokers Sword Vik will make it in and at that point she can either call her sister forward and begin the fun , or go it alone with continuous healing flips from the librarian in the back. Keep in mind without Von Schill nearby the Librarian will go down to a stiff breeze. If the enemy ever gets a couple of shots or spells off her she will die, period. If she goes down hopefully it's late in the game and you're already to grips with the opposing crew, otherwise you may be SOL.

With either List I tend to have Taelor on point as it were. She's scary enough to draw fire, and tough enough to take it for a couple of turns at least, possibly more if the librarian wants to get close enough to give her healing flips.

Some Questions For You:

How do your games usually play out? How much Terrain does your group play with? What is your overall plan for advancing, are the Viks out in front, or is someone else leading? Is the enemy giving you the opportunity to use whirlwind by sticking close together, or are they spreading out?

[PwnyBownz]

Games usually play out by the Viks getting tarpitted with minions (zomibes or stpa) until desolation engine, killjoy, or Nicodem get in range to do ridiculous damage.

There's quite a bit of terrain, covering at least 40% of the board; any less would be extremely fatal.

Even if I do get whirlwind off, they all come back the next turn by exhume or whatever.

My games usually come down to Taelor tanking till the bitter end. Gunslinger usually gets picked off first everytime I've tried to move him within range, so I've kept him in the back field on objectives.

I've never fielded Masaki so I'm not confident with playing her or know her tactics.

In other words: get a librarian Stat!

[goldenjester]

Well, my usual Viks list looks like this at 25SS:

Viks

Convict Gunslinger

Misaki

Hans

5 SS

5 models in a 25 is about right, and I have quite a bit of ranged superiority. Usually, I'll put Hans with a clear firing line to an enemy objective (evidence, claim, etc.) and keep that down. Gunslinger will advance ahead a bit and slow movement with suppressing fire (against moderately clumpy crews, this is really fun). When I'm lucky, suppressing fire can empty their hand, giving Hans a good chance with headshot. Misaki usually does her own thing, using fire or thunder to make people sad in melee. Wind is a great ability, too, and Earth has led to some silly objective taking. Another tip is to try juking the Viks-Advance one up the field, leave her "open" to attack, then switch and dominate with whichever one works better at the time (sword or gun Vik). It can really mess with people.

[naiatoc]

For 30 SS I would go:

Viks

Taelor

Ronin

Gunslinger

1 of : Misaki or Librarian

5 SS

Hey! That's exactly what I take. We play at the 30ss pretty regularly so I've run the list above with Misaki more times than any other list.

From those games I can say one thing for certain. Misaki dies really quick. Even with her extended range she takes a beating and almost always drops first.

When I finally get my Von Shill crew painted I'll try the list with the Librarian. From everyone I've talked to that's the way to go.

Lists I want to try out sometime are:

Victoria 1

Victoria 2

Librarian

Specialist

Trapper

Freikorpsman

Freikorpsman

4ss

Victoria 1

Victoria 2

Taelor

Librarian

Trapper

Convict Gunslinger

3ss

[Buck Dog]

Hey! That's exactly what I take. We play at the 30ss pretty regularly so I've run the list above with Misaki more times than any other list.

From those games I can say one thing for certain. Misaki dies really quick. Even with her extended range she takes a beating and almost always dros first.

When I finally get my Von Shill crew painted I'll try the list with the Librarian. From everyone I've talked to that's the way to go.

Lists I want to try out sometime are:

Victoria 1

Victoria 2

Librarian

Specialist

Trapper

Freikorpsman

Freikorpsman

4ss

Victoria 1

Victoria 2

Taelor

Librarian

Trapper

Convict Gunslinger

3ss

..... you can't take the first list as it includes more than 2 special forces minions. To run with that many Freikorp, you need to take Von Schill.

I like the look of your second list though, I may have to borrow it !

[Sezar]

Everytime you fight Undead or Constructs, you might get really a good use of Von Schill and his dudes.

Von Schill himself is great against Resurrectionists, both by destroying them and by removing counters. Versus Constructs he can also do the latter, and can easily Slow them too.

The Trapper is always a good investment, but versus Beasts and/or Constructs he also gets bonusses to hit them. Also, being able to make your whole Crew Scout is invaluable in some games (Forested p.e.).

I wouldn't take Friekorpsmenn along with the Viks, I guess the extra soulstone is well paid for their superior CC and mobility abilities, and their sinergy with the Viks (and you can always Sac them when they're about to die for extra soulstones by Sepukku).

[Adran]

Get troops into combat to keep them safe from shooting. Most of your crew can cover the range of an opponents guns in one activation and still get a strike in, so shouldn't take too much shooting damage.

I like the option of a frieskorps trapper for two uses, 1 he can remove corpse counters, and 2, he has a longer range than almost everything else.

[naiatoc]

..... you can't take the first list as it includes more than 2 special forces minions. To run with that many Freikorp, you need to take Von Schill.

Ahhh... Very true. I just reread the rules on special forces.

That begs the question, how does Von Shill compare to Taelor? Both cost the same, so subbing him in place of her lets me take more Freikorp. Is it worth it?

In a large scrap it might be worth it because I can take advantage of having more Freikorp. But in a smaller game I may not want more than 2. In a brawl (of any size) I assume it would be a great idea.

[Dark Alleycat]

Von schill costs 9,Taelor costs 8.

[Scurry]

That begs the question, how does Von Shill compare to Taelor? Both cost the same, so subbing him in place of her lets me take more Freikorp. Is it worth it?

von shill v taelor really comes down to personal preference and opponent, strategy & schemes i think you cant go wrong with either.

eg against kirai you would want taelor for the magical weapon, but anything else you could argue either since v. shill is harder to kill can get rid of corpse counters and make constructs slow whereas taelor has higher damage output, the positive damage trigger on constructs and ignores armour (i know v. shill ignores armour on his knife but its better to use his gun).

v. shill is also a lot faster so can get to treasure, evidence markers etc very quickly (especially if a student give him fast, thats 20" of the board turn 1). and finally he give the librarian slow to die when he is close, so your df3 6wd model isnt quite so easy to kill.

[Drool_bucket]

the only argument that I would have in favor of Taelor over Von Schill, aside from Scurry's observation on magical weapons, is that Von Schill "dilutes" your crew, in the sense that he requires a Soulstone or maybe two to be "tough as Taelor" (I love Hard to Wound) and he does so many tasks well that he may disrupt a Controller's playstyle.

Taelor is simple. Point her at something tough and hope she wins.

Von Schill helps out allies, has a gun which is nice, moves around amazingly well and has a bunch of other tricks up his sleeve... all this can be a bit much for a new player, and even an experienced player may find Von Schill mucking things up *and* eating a few more soulstones(both in cost to hire and in game), which the Viks really need.

But, in the end, Von Schill is a better all around model with more potential.

[Wulfen]

Here's what I have for 35SS. If I feel I need the SS, I drop the Student of Conflict.

Viks

Student of Conflict 3

Von Schill 9

3xRonin 15

Convict Gunslinger 5

This gives you a starting pool of 3, which can go to 5 if you don't take one scheme. If you drop the totem, that jumps to 6 or a full 8.

[micahwc]

Going back to the original post;

One thing I have seen in this game with all Melee focused masters (I have personally experienced it with Lilith, have seen it done with the Viks, and assume Lady J has the same problem) is that they can be over extended very easily.

It is easy to run forward towards the enemy as fast as possible, with an attempt to get the first strike on the opponent. Sometimes this works out very well, but I have found that this usually leaves the model too far ahead from its own army, while surrounded by the opponents army. Minions can do this as well as masters. The Viks are awesome as a pair, but once one is dead the other gets considerably cuddled.

Lone Viks who get sling shotted ahead and charge into the enemy army can do a lot of damage, but will usually die (or use a lot of soul stones) in the counter charge. If your enemy is by himself and you can kill him outright, then this may work. If your enemy is near his entire army, it usually ends badly for you. Melee masters tend to outpace their minions because they have more AP or can move faster. You want to time your attack so that all of your melee models can hit on the same turn.

The Melee focused masters work really well as a counter charging unit. You charge in with another model (such as a ronin), and then charge whatever the enemy sends to fight the first model, with your Viks. This causes the enemies charges to hit your weaker minions, and allows your Viks to do a lot of damage back.

Melee masters do well if they can sit and defend an area. If the enemy has to run to where you are, then you are more likely to get all 3 attacks onto a target. You are also more able to concentrate your force if the situation calls for it.

[Drool_bucket]

I swap Von Schill for Taelor, but that's exactly what I run.

I don't understand not using Ronin with the Viks, if just for Another One?

I am not sold on the Student of Conflict, he's just so slow and the Viks so darn fast... I am excited to get some desperate Mercs in their if just for some model count....

@micahwc I slingshot the Swordmistress ahead if the opponent comes at me with a clump of models and I have one or two Masks in my hand, so what if she dies, she's gonna chop up a lot of stuff first with Whirlwind and Melee Expert... Then I bring her back with Another One...

[micahwc]

I have played against the Viks many times and I have never seen Another One work. Ronin are nice for many reasons. They are a solid 5 point model that ignores armor, is mobile, and which can shoot and stab, but Another One is not why I would take them.

Edited April 15, 2011 by micahwc
didnt want to sound like an ass

[Drool_bucket]

humph? I've used Another One? probably 1/4 of my games, maybe more. Maybe cause I use my Swordmistress as a guided missile and hang the gunfigher back. I almost always take a high number of Soulstones in my pool (5 plus) and will hang a Ronin back if things look like they will get dicey.

I can't think of the last time I didn't use 2 Ronin in any size game...

but yeah, Ronin are solid, they were silly good before Run Through got made into a (2) action, but still remain wonderful Minions that gel well with the fast moving, glass cannon Viks...

[Buck Dog]

I have played a whole load of games with the Viks too, and I have never used Another One either....

Also I am not a fan of throwing one Vik forward and holding the other one back, as it tends to limit their movement antics.

[DarcXON]

After reading the thread I noticed the lack of Von Schill in a lot of lists. Frankly I don't know of a good enough reason to not bring him.

I currently use Von Schill as the "Master" and the Viks as "Henchmen" that cost 9 soulstones. Hell you don't have to protect Schill as much as you have to protect the Viks.

To the OP try using the Viks with the Slingshot Maneuver:

Activate and Companion both Viks and Student of Conflict

Activate Student of Conflict and use Assist on Sword Vik

Activate Sword Vik and use her 3 actions and Melee Expert as you please. Preferably to kill or maim something.

Activate Gun Vik and move to a safe location, then use Sisters in Spirit.

I find that this works very well while having a nice threat Range of 17 inches. Retaliation should be minimal.

Hell there is a lot more for the Viks but I usually am too concentrated on my bloodlust...