Dirial Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I've not visited the war memorials for the world wars, but I know I had a sense of it when I heard a song from the band Dropkick Murphy's that that someone wrote after visiting one of the graveyards for those lost in WWI called the Green Fields of France. Beautiful song but it really drove home the cost of those wars in a way I hadn't had happen before that. It helps to keep perspective: In battle of the Somme, more people died per day than in the whole Vietnam War. And that's why we have to make sure that it never happens again. All people suffered, some suffer still. And still people think strengthening national borders and identities can solve problems, just like keeping other people out and trying to forget about them. Never forget. I was a bit saddened that I had to scroll through 1,5 pages of google images of September 11th and American flags before I found this one: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think it was good that our school had a mandatory Auschwitz trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think it was good that our school had a mandatory Auschwitz trip. Everyone should visit that horrible place once in their life. It tends to whip all feelings of patriotism and superiority right off peoples' faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah. That's one of those places that I do/don't want to go. I don't want to go because I can imagine it all too well from what people have said about it. I do want to go because it's frankly important. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah. That's one of those places that I do/don't want to go. I don't want to go because I can imagine it all too well from what people have said about it. I do want to go because it's frankly important. Imagine all the things you fear about it to be true. But much much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 That is the thing about this, now many people do not know much more then they were taught at School about WWI & WWII. My Mrs was born and raised in Zimbabwe and moved away when she was 18. She was taught about the Rhodesian regiments that fought in East and North Africa, Italy and Greece and Burma. We went to Budapest for her birthday last year and took part in a guided tour that took in all the sights and the memorials in Budapest. I had to spend at least a couple of hours giving her a brief run down of how Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro Hungarian empire that allied with the Germans during the first world war then had to split its land following WWI and in the lead up to WWII attempted to stay neutral before defending against the Soviet soldiers and then being under communism until the fall of the Berlin Wall etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah. That's one of those places that I do/don't want to go. I don't want to go because I can imagine it all too well from what people have said about it. I do want to go because it's frankly important. You should just visit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Everyone should visit that horrible place once in their life. It tends to whip all feelings of patriotism and superiority right off peoples' faces. I still need to visit here, I have been to Kanchanaburi War Memorial in Thailand and I just could not imagine that so I have no idea how other Concentration Camps would strike me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I still need to visit here, I have been to Kanchanaburi War Memorial in Thailand and I just could not imagine that so I have no idea how other Concentration Camps would strike me. Can't tell you that either. All I visited (Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau) have been horrible in different ways. Might be that my personal connection to them lets me experience them more deeply, might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 If I ever make it to Europe I intend to. Honestly, all of you learned far more about the world wars than we did in History Class. A week on the Holocaust and then a day or two to say basically that WWII happened is what we do to transition from the Great Depression to the sixties, with maybe a mention of the Korean War. Americans who say that America won WWII are actually better educated than most of the country because they remembered at least that. And WWI is a couple of days and then a whole bunch of time on the Roaring Twenties. I actually sat at a table of college educated adults, some with Masters degrees, and they didn't know who Eisenhower was. It was terrifying. Still kinda is, because this is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Much less any of the commanders from other armies, like Rommel, McArthur, Montgomery and so on. Americans are stupidly ignorant of the history of the rest of the world, but we're damn confidant that we know it all. Pisses me the hell off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 That is the thing that worries me the most, the fact that people will forget what happened. That and the constant Neo-Nazi shit that is around these days seemingly everywhere. I think that it is amazing that trips to Auschwitz Birkenau are mandatory for PD's old school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Auschwitz is one place I have to visit if I ever make it to Germany. Though I know my emotions will likely get the better of me if I make it, but I feel in a way that's good. My grandfather was involved in the second world war on a minesweeper in the English Channel..They would go out in darkness with just a small torch for light to lean over the edge of the boat shining this light that stretched only about three or four feet in front of them to search for the mines floating in the sea. I can't imagine how scary that would be. He has always said though that he was one of the lucky ones and never experienced actual combat. he lost a lot of good friends though. This is one of the reasons why my kids will learn the whole story and hopefully those who died will never be forgotten, soldiers and civilians from both sides alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yep. I remember talking with the girl I was dating at the time about how I wondered when some of the old war movies that covered things in WWII and the Cold War would start losing their impact on the public mind, and she thought it would be a good thing when they did. I was just baffled by that. Choosing to forget history is a great way to ensure the same lessons will need to be learned all over, and it will have the same cost of too fucking high in lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 On a lighter note...Morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I've heard so many young people say "Why do I need to learn about what some old dudes did 100 years ago? It doesn't affect my life." Well, it bloody should, you ignorant fool! Concentration camp trips are mandatory for every German student. All the more awesome other European countries have a similar policy. Also, Auschwitz is in Poland, Abs: Oświęcim. I'm truly curious how American citizens see Europe. What they know and think about it. I'd like to travel to the US and just ask people that. I fear I'd be obnoxious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 On a lighter note...Morning! And morning to you too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I've heard so many young people say "Why do I need to learn about what some old dudes did 100 years ago? It doesn't affect my life." Well, it bloody should, you ignorant fool! Concentration camp trips are mandatory for every German student. All the more awesome other European countries have a similar policy. I'm truly curious how American citizens see Europe. What they know and think about it. I'd like to travel to the US and just ask people that. I fear I'd be onboxious though. I am also curious about that, although the conversations that I have had to date are along the lines of well you guys (UK) did ok up until we came in and rescued you. That attitude really annoys me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Depends on the part of the U.S. you go to. Keep in mind, the U.S. by land mass is larger than most of Europe combined, it's almost correct to think of the various parts as their own cultures. Lots of the South will view Europe as that place where we kicked the British and German asses, and France is a bunch of cowards, for instance. Northeast might see it as that place to go on vacation too. And so on. Hundreds of different possible answers to that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I can tell you Dirial that it is hit and miss with how Americans see Europe. I have spoken to those who know a lot about the history, the cultures etc and they are a joy to talk to (ie..the guys on here fall into this category). Then I have met the really obnoxious people who somehow feel they are superior to everyone because they come from "The biggest and best country in the world, and always has been". These are the people who insist to me that Wales is a county in England. That as you can imagine, irks a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I can tell you Dirial that it is hit and miss with how Americans see Europe. I have spoken to those who know a lot about the history, the cultures etc and they are a joy to talk to (ie..the guys on here fall into this category). Then I have met the really obnoxious people who somehow feel they are superior to everyone because they come from "The biggest and best country in the world, and always has been". These are the people who insist to me that Wales is a county in England. That as you can imagine, irks a little. I would say so. It irks me that people tend to call the Netherlands 'Holland'. It's like calling the whole of the USA Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 To be fair, that's how Texas views themselves in relation to the rest of the country. (Rolls eyes) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Depends on the part of the U.S. you go to. Keep in mind, the U.S. by land mass is larger than most of Europe combined, it's almost correct to think of the various parts as their own cultures. Lots of the South will view Europe as that place where we kicked the British and German asses, and France is a bunch of cowards, for instance. Northeast might see it as that place to go on vacation too. And so on. Hundreds of different possible answers to that one. I can tell you Dirial that it is hit and miss with how Americans see Europe. I have spoken to those who know a lot about the history, the cultures etc and they are a joy to talk to (ie..the guys on here fall into this category). Then I have met the really obnoxious people who somehow feel they are superior to everyone because they come from "The biggest and best country in the world, and always has been". These are the people who insist to me that Wales is a county in England. That as you can imagine, irks a little. I gathered as much. Still curious to see their opinions. I would say so. It irks me that people tend to call the Netherlands 'Holland'. It's like calling the whole of the USA Texas. I do that, too. I know the difference, but it seems the name is a historical legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I am also fascinated by Welsh history too, which I should be. It is mainly seen as the Welsh were celtic tribes that then got oppressed by the English and have been a principality ever since. Whilst that is essentially true, the welsh were not the meek roll overs that people have come to believe, and they in turn committed some of the worst atrocities in middle ages warfare. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 @ PD I always used to call it Holland too, mainly because that was what TV or schools called it. It has only been the last fifteen or so years where more sources are now calling it the Netherlands. I try to make an effort to call it this also, but I am guilty of sometimes slipping back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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