nilus Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I agree with with what she say whole heartedly, there is little reason for someone to own a functioning gun, outside army/police I have to agree with this, and I am a gun owner. I enjoy target shooting but over the last few years things seem to be getting out of hand. I'd gladly give my gun up if it meant something like this was less likely to happen. I'm not saying Gun control will solve everything, there is way more to it then that, but it can't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I disagree that guns are the problem. Even if we did take away the guns,.. the criminals will still have them. And the whole point of allowing us to have guns, is so that we can defend ourselves from our government, should it become tyrannical and oppressive to its people. Some would argue that we are close to that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I disagree that guns are the problem. Even if we did take away the guns,.. the criminals will still have them. "We shouldn't have a law because criminals will break it" has always been a line of reasoning that has baffled me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 But that then poses an interesting debate,.. do we have so many laws because we have so many criminals or do we have so many criminals because we have so many laws? If there weren't so many things to get busted for, would we have so many people be getting busted? You defend the current structure, while ignoring the mass incarceration of the people. And why shouldn't I be allowed to defend myself from someone who's trying to do me harm, with the same level of lethalness with which he attempts to harm me.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 But that then poses an interesting debate,.. do we have so many laws because we have so many criminals or do we have so many criminals because we have so many laws? If there weren't so many things to get busted for, would we have so many people be getting busted? You defend the current structure, while ignoring the mass incarceration of the people. And why shouldn't I be allowed to defend myself from someone who's trying to do me harm, with the same level of lethalness with which he attempts to harm me.? I don't even think it's an interesting debate. I think we as a society come into and create the laws we believe are best for preserving said society, and people transgress those laws for any number of reasons that cannot be buttoned up into simple wordplay. The second part though, is the one I think most worth mulling over. I actually enjoy the equalizing effect technology has on a person's ability to defend themselves. It's not a perfect solution, however, and our crime level hasn't been abated by the presence of guns. Finally, the 2nd Amendment is an obsolete concept. It's been obsolete since the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Wolfe Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Try living in the country with feral and often dangerous animals that ruin your lively hood and kill your live stock, gun control in Australia is so tight it hurts. Guns are a tool, it is how people use them. Are we banning knives because stabbings are so common? The criminals still do have guns...but only the serious ones (usually). On the up side it forced me to become awesome with a bow. Kill a tennis ball sized target at less than 50m every time. Guns and gun control is an area of opinion that touches on personal beliefs and experiences. The problem is for the laws to match the needs of an increasingly complicated society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Then perhaps the solution isn't less guns, but more guns. What if every person were required to carry one? What happens to the crime rate when the bank robber realizes that not only is the clerk behind the counter armed, but so are all the people in line. I bet he thinks twice about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Then perhaps the solution isn't less guns, but more guns. This is a great idea for increasing gun violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Given my example,... it would actually decrease gun violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Given my example,... it would actually decrease gun violence. Your example relies on the idea that 30 armed persons wouldn't turn a robbery into a cluster**** of flying lead. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 But then the criminal gets dead,.. causing the crime rate to go down by 1 offender. Why blame the gun? Or even mental illness? Why can't it just be the "guys" fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 But then the criminal gets dead,.. causing the crime rate to go down by 1 offender. Why blame the gun? Or even mental illness? Why can't it just be the "guys" fault? No, a ****load of people at the bank get dead, too. Look, your example is just ludicrous. It's the worst kind of Libertarian fantasy, where every shootout ends with only the bad guys dead. And it totally is the guy's fault... when it's the guy's fault. Treating violent crime as a game of Whack-a-Mole, instead of trying to treat the causes (mental illness, which is a tragically ignored epidemic in our country, poverty, etc) is a recipe for ensuring gun violence and gun crime continue. But hey, it's just much more cathartic to imagine shooting a bad guy, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Not if people are properly trained in the use of firearms. Our military for example, manage to fire in close quarters without killing each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Not if people are properly trained in the use of firearms. Our military for example, manage to fire in close quarters without killing each other So now, in addition to insisting that everyone be armed, they have to devote the same amount of time to training with guns as the military/SWAT? Seems to me we've got a better solution in the form of just about anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 I disagree. The long and short of the arguement is that my rights should not be impeded because of the flawed actions of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 I disagree. The long and short of the arguement is that my rights should not be impeded because of the flawed actions of others The "flawed actions of others" is literally the basis for every law in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmonkey Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Either way,.. time for dinner,... pushes pause on this discussion... to be continued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 How are people tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Monkey Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hot, very hot .....on the plus side got away with a cheap warrant for the car, and found out I paid the phone bill twice the other month so owe them very little now..... how are you Ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Going nuts. Never making the mistake of getting behind on essays ever again. O.o Oh well, I'll live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Sounds like fun! Not... That's somewhat handy with the car Monkey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 What's a warrant for a car? How are you, Mako? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Monkey Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Oh dear..... how much essay work you have to do then? This mean you are not making Star Wars? ---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:38 PM ---------- Its a six monthly check to make sure it is fit for the road ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Nope, missed out on Star Wars this week. Sad about that, but priorities are important. I'll catch up next week. The nice thing is that we've been averaging a story a week, so I'll hopefully be able to just jump in for the session next week. I currently have an essay and a half, with three hours to go. Chipper subject this one, dealing with eternal destiny and Christian theology, but I have more of an idea of what's going on with this topic than some of the others in the course because of my interest in apologetics. ---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ---------- Ah, so an inspection. Why didn't you just say so? *wink* Glad to hear it didn't cost much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 I'm not too bad, today was quite dull in some ways but no great shocks there! Going to take it easy tonight and see if i can get a bunch of stuff done over the weekend. Anyone got fun plans for the next few days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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