Looking at Ramos

[i_was_like_you]

As for the Reactivate tricks....using Burn Out from Alyce on Ramos isn't a terrible idea, but against a lot of Masters, they could send an Alpha strike of sorts across the board and kill Ramos before you have a chance to heal him. If you really want to get into Avatar form that early, I suggest going with the Mobile Toolkit.

One trick to remember with Alyce and Burn Out though, is this. Say you are planning to Manifest during Turn 3. At the beginning of Turn 3, you can cast Burn Out on Ramos. Activate Ramos one time, and then during his 2nd activation, that's when you Manifest. Then, during the Manifest steps, all effects are removed, and therefore, Ramos won't drop down to 1 Wd during the Closing Phase.

All very good to know.

Thanks for another nice trick with Alyce.

Just to be certain, the Toolkit or Brass Arachnid could kill itself using Combat Mechanic in my above scenario and leave its scrap counter behind, correct?

Bigglesworth, you misunderstood what I meant.

The way the manifest requirement is written, you can successfully complete it in 3 different ways:

1) cast summon electrical creation twice

2) cast summon spider twice

3) cast summon electrical creation once and summon spider once.

the reason is that the wording is explicit as follows:

"Ramos successfuly casts Electrical Creation and/or Construct Spider twice".

If it was meant that you had to cast one of the two spells twice, then it would not have the "and" in there.

Not that I doubt it, but it still seems a bit too easy. Then again, most Masters have one manifest requirement that they'd likely be doing anyways.

-------------------

Oh, another question regarding manifesting:

Let's just assume all manifest requirements have been met to the point that the Master can manifest as a (1) action. Say that Master has Slow to Die (Colette does, right?). Can that Master manifest from Slow to Die if she dies from wounds (and get her healing flip, etc.)?

Edited October 24, 2011 by i_was_like_you

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Collette slow to die question yes that would work as long as you have a ss to usfor healing flip during manifest.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Bigglesworth, you misunderstood what I meant.

The way the manifest requirement is written, you can successfully complete it in 3 different ways:

1) cast summon electrical creation twice

2) cast summon spider twice

3) cast summon electrical creation once and summon spider once.

the reason is that the wording is explicit as follows:

"Ramos successfuly casts Electrical Creation and/or Construct Spider twice".

I did misunderstand you. I understood the manifest requirement. It is an easy one to complete if you have a totem doesn't matter which there is ups and downs for both was what I am pointing out. I would use the brass since it is cheaper even if I brought rusty Alice.

He is one of those great Avatars that you can manifest turn one which is awesome considering how slow he is and how much faster his avatar.

You could also bring the two large arachnids and detonate then for 6 scraps than use the avatar to summon 2 guild wardens and have two scraps leftover to use for his zero or to summon next turn. The large spiders being on 50s is a must for Ramos avatar just for its scraps. Also his summon ability for avatar is amazing since it is an ability and not a spell.

[i_was_like_you]

Outstanding.

I do own her, but I haven't taken her, or her crew, out of the box. I'd bought a lot on ebay with both her and the Dreamer's crews, a Malifaux bag (giving me a second on, as my first one was getting full), two sets of bases (Victorian and Graveyard), and book one, all for less than the price of the bag and one crew. The guy even threw in a pair of dry erase markers and a 25 pack of toploaders for putting the stat cards in. We hadn't even thought about that around here at the time. Shortly thereafter, most players were using them in this area. So far we've only found one sports card stores that carries the right size, but the LGS my buddy owns is looking to carry them if their distributors can get them.

But I digress.

Maybe I'll reconsider using her at some point, once we start having brawls.

Regarding Ramos, also outstanding. Depending on oppoent, there might be even more scrap counters to make use of, leaving the LSPAs alive for later. But it does sound like an all around safe strategy to get him manifested early.

Edited October 24, 2011 by i_was_like_you

[Tograth]

I understand that it seems a bit easy, but if you look through, most of the masters have one relatively difficult requirement and one easy one.

first turn requirements that can be met:

Sonia for instance can most definitely get one requirement in a single activation (Inferno twice).

Nicodem - Arise.

Marcus - Feral.

Ramos - Summon EC/ Summon spider x2

Dreamer - Chompy / all done trigger

Zoraida - Obey

Som'er - take a swig

thats 7 of the 20 masters that can get a first turn requirement. I'd say its intended.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

True but less than half have it easy and even fewer can get reactivate or do more than an all action. Ramos I think is the only who can get a turn full activation with Alice that is huge. Or one full activation then manifest. He is an amazing avatar. My favorite at this time.

On a side note Ramos is the only master I haven't played, seen played or played against. I just got his crew this last weekend and he is you going to be my go to master.

[Tograth]

I think Ramos and Seamus were the two avatars which gave the most improvement to their respective masters. Marcus, to a point, as well.

For myself, since i saw twisting fates and how awesome Ramos was, I've not been able to think of anything but running him. he's awesome!

[i_was_like_you]

He certainly is a good master to have. Reactivate is nice. Colette also has that trick up her sleeve. [And there's a huge debate going on as to whether Hoffman can gain the same ability through a little combo of his abilities. What none of them have said is, why not just take Alyce. He is the third master whose crew she fits into.]

I've got two LSPAs on order at my buddy's gameshop. We'll see how well they do.

[Adran]

I understand that it seems a bit easy, but if you look through, most of the masters have one relatively difficult requirement and one easy one.

first turn requirements that can be met:

Sonia for instance can most definitely get one requirement in a single activation (Inferno twice).

Nicodem - Arise.

Marcus - Feral.

Ramos - Summon EC/ Summon spider x2

Dreamer - Chompy / all done trigger

Zoraida - Obey

Som'er - take a swig

thats 7 of the 20 masters that can get a first turn requirement. I'd say its intended.

Don't have the manifest requirements to hand, but

Inferno is a 0 action, so Sonnia can't cast it twice in 1 activation.

Feral is also a 0 action, and even though Marcus is instictual, he can't do the Same 0 action twice in an activation. (He can probably get his primal reaction one though)

[Tograth]

my apologies - I hadnt taken a close look at the requirements. You are right in respect to those 2, but the rest are definitely possible. :/

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Sonia can still do turn 2 pretty easy inferno twice and 10 wd from her main spell given how far she can spread one cast can easily do 10 wd to enemies in one cast. Only problem is she needs times in hand. This would also cost probably 2-3 ss. I think Sonia is still able to be on the list.

Point being a good third are able to be on the list of easy turn 2 manifest. I believe Ramos is probably easiest especially with the help of a totem.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Calmdown]

I think Ramos and Seamus were the two avatars which gave the most improvement to their respective masters. Marcus, to a point, as well.

For myself, since i saw twisting fates and how awesome Ramos was, I've not been able to think of anything but running him. he's awesome!

Me too, but I can't bare the thought of a 2ss cache and how much it cripples him. It's so aggravating.

[Adran]

Ramos is the master most likely to be manifested in Turn 2, but that is partly because he can manifest then effectively for a 1 AP spell from a minion (or his totem).

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Me too, but I can't bare the thought of a 2ss cache and how much it cripples him. It's so aggravating.

The two ss doesn't cripple his normal form since he usually is backfield caster. It does cripple his avatar who wants a good cache. If you going against a crew that doesn't have the ability to ignore armor which most don't then it is not so bad.

Being able to be so mobile or have an insane armor of 4 and be able to heal makes him crazy hard to take down. Also he remains ht 2.he can hide a little easier. He can summon a large steampunk arachnid to block low to him.

His avatar is probably the best improvement of a master and has probably the least weakness, biggest being like calmdown stated is the original starting cache.

[Calmdown]

The two ss doesn't cripple his normal form since he usually is backfield caster. It does cripple his avatar who wants a good cache. If you going against a crew that doesn't have the ability to ignore armor which most don't then it is not so bad.

Being able to be so mobile or have an insane armor of 4 and be able to heal makes him crazy hard to take down. Also he remains ht 2.he can hide a little easier. He can summon a large steampunk arachnid to block low to him.

His avatar is probably the best improvement of a master and has probably the least weakness, biggest being like calmdown stated is the original starting cache.

I disagree. It doesnt matter where he is, the fact is most lists will field a model that can reliably do certain things to the game. When that model in your list has 2ss, you lose a lot of field control. It doesn't matter that he's backfield, what matters is that he's almost like a normal dude. When you play against masters with starting caches of 4/5 you'll find yourself heavily pressured with no way to counter that pressure within your crew as a whole. The only way to redress this is to take a good few extra SS, at which point you're down in points in a faction that already struggles for cost effective models, putting you in a different yet similar mire.

Net effect: casters with 'too low' SS pools struggle. At least Perdita has awesome abilities to compensate for her weakness. Seamus is middling, but does excel in certain areas (toughness) at least. Ramos doesn't really have a redeeming feature and even comes with the additional weakness of being essentially useless once locked in combat.

The fact that his avatar is so good - better than most Avatars - somewhat makes up for his base model being so bad, but it's still a risky proposition. Don't get me wrong though, I can't wait for his Avatar to finally start running him (and my pet favourite model that no one else likes: Steamborg Pwnecutioner)

[LoboStele]

Meh, part of Ramos' manifest requirements is to summon spiders. If you're trying to manifest in Turn 2, you'll be spending your whole activation in both turns summoning Spiders or Electrical Creations, effectively putting 3-6 more points on the table. So it isn't a big deal to start another 2-4 points short.

Yes, Ramos hurts compared to some other Masters with his relatively low cache. But there are plenty of ways to work around that.

I have a crew build that only starts with 4 SS total, and ends up with 7 by Turn 2, with all pieces at full health still. Ramos has lots of fun tricks available to him now.

[i_was_like_you]

If Ramos only summons Electrical Creations, we've only used his +1 Casting Expert, leaving him 2AP and a 0 to do anything else, most of which would be situational. So moving twice, or getting started on his Electrical Fire requirement wouldn't be out of the question.

If we go with any of those other suggested strategies of killing off his Large Steampunk Arachnid, then he wouldn't need to Salvage Under Fire to gain the scrap counter to summon an Arachnid instead.

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The other day I got two turns in with my Ramos crew against another friend playing the Vikies. I chose Brass Arachnid and managed to have a 7:tomes and 11:tomes in my opening hand, so I used Stoke on Ramos. Ramos, on his first activation, summoned an Electrical Creation and walked twice. My next model to activate was the EC, which used its 1AP to Burst. Later in the turn I activated Ramos the second time and summoned EC again. It managed to move towards the enemy (next turn dealing 4 total damage to a Ronin, 1 from base contact, 3 from Burst).

Turn two, I didn't get the :tomes I needed, so the Brass failed at Stoke twice. I'm gonna give it a try a few more times before deciding whether to bring Alyce back in for Burn Out or to bring in the Arcane Effigy.