Ideas for beating Hamelin the Plagued

[Dolomyte]

I'd definately say he's toast in anything Slaughter related, regardless of how good or bad anyone is playing.

35 Soul Stone Game

Hamelin the Plagued - 8 Soul Stones

Nix - 7

Rat Catcher - 5

The Stolen - 3

The Stolen - 3

Malifaux Rat - 2

Malifaux Rat - 2

Malifaux Rat - 2

Malifaux Rat - 2

Malifaux Rat - 2

(Rats x5)

Is an impregnable force, honestly.

It's the list I have used literally every single time I've played.

I can definitely say it works well, but not in slaughter.

I only got lucky once when there was a terrifying model so I could get my Rat Catcher away so he would stop respawning rats.

- - - -

As for a strategy he's powerful at,

How would one go about getting him for Contain Power if he had Escape and Survive.

(Escape and Survive is doable now due to the change in the Rules Manual.)

I'm going to use the organized play rules, which escape and survive is not available in

Since you did not list an objective for hamelin, I am going to assume it will be shared contain power. In which case I will take colette, cassandra, the duet, 1 showgirl, 1 gunslinger and 2 soulstones. I would announce bodyguard for myself, and grudge on one of the rats.

depending on deployment, the duet or coryphee seperated would try to hunt down the stolen, moving 27 inches a round. I would also have a mannaquin with them trying to make them immune to weak damage. The gunslinger / showgirl / colette would attempt to lure rat catchers into gunslinger range or out of rat armor range. with the gunslinger I would use his AOE attack to try to paralyze the catcher / rats (assuming you wont discard, or making you toss cards to do so) and then I would just start plucking some damage on him. on colettes go I would try to finish him off. lots of if's there, but I would see what I could do.

In reality the rest of the game would play out depending on how we react to each other. if I got the upper hand and some nice flips I would try to take out hamelin, but this is a bad scenario to fight him on, I agree. Its equally bad to face von schill and colette in this scenario. With the objectives I picked and colette I think the very worst I could do is 8 victory points. which would tie the best hamelin could do, so we draw. I'm ok with taking a draw in this scenario against hamelin, von schill, or colette.

Edit - Leveticus is also a real SOB at contain power.

Typically I play arcanists, so colette would be my go to for this. however, I also play neverborn and was thinking about it. I would probably try the same strategy with the nekima lelu lelitu lore bomb. Everything in the hamelin crew is low WP except hamelin, so they could probably drain models down relatively quickly, especially since she could cast it without really worrying about using her own cards. she and lelu both go at the same time, so I would let him kill the rat catcher if I could get him out of the rat safety net. Its a pretty terrifying heavy army, which hamelin has issues with, and fast enough to catch the stolen. I think this army would pose huge problems to hamelin in a lot of scenarios, I will give this exact scenario a test as soon as my roomate gets home from work.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Dolomyte
adding more in.

[Hookers]

I can definitely say it works well, but not in slaughter.

Your opponent will definitely get slaughter. But you will probably still win by getting your schemes and denying their's

I killed 95 points worth of models in slaughter against him. He still had 42 on the table (not including the 10 points for hamelin) in a 35 point game.

Took 3 and half hours and ended mid turn 4. Last time i played against him.

also, out of curiosity, why wouldn't you start with 2 ratcatchers?

[magicpockets]

...and grudge on one of the rats.

Am I right in saying that if the Ratcatcher does "kill all rats" and, as the name implies, kills all the rats and get new ones that this auto fails? I've not got my book on me but seem to remember "grudge" is the melee one?

depending on deployment, the duet or coryphee seperated would try to hunt down the stolen, moving 27 inches a round. I would also have a mannaquin with them trying to make them immune to weak damage.

That's great until Hamelin makes them insignificant and then sets them up so they can only target him - especially as the effect carries over to them both if you split the duet. At least, that's how I'd try and counter it :hmmmm:

Edited April 3, 2011 by magicpockets
condensing multiple posts

[magicpockets]

By the way - as Ratty pointed out - this thread has ALSO now been derailed by the vocal minority so I'm abandoning it to the wilds of theorifaux.

I'm going to talk with a few people about some tactics and then post a kind of "anti-tacticia" next week which can be maintain as a living document for now.

As for the debate, I'm goingt o take a step back from the front line as it's p***ing me off way to much now

[Hookers]

the vocal minority

in all honesty, the people that you play games against, do they enjoy it? if they do, are you abusing the crap out the rats?

it looks to me that they are just as many people saying that hamelin sucks as there are defending him. and the ones that are defending him are pretty much just saying "he's not that bad. if you are good you can beat him."

you like hamelin. that's cool. its looks to me that sandwich also loves him, and wants to be able to play him but can't in good conscience because of frustrating mechanics.

i think for everyone one person who posts on the forums there are 10+ who play malifaux at their LGS who do not post. i wouldn't be so quick to call it a minority. it looks at least 50/50 to me. i think after he's been out a little bit this will change.

[Sandwich]

The problem is all this negativity from both sides is not good. Hamelin went through playtesting which meant that most of the people that tested him thought he was reasonably well balanced. A few issues got through due to people not noticing an infinite loop, this happens. But overall he can't be as horrifically unbalaced as some people make out.

However imagine how it looks to any new person that comes on the forum. I would love for there to be a thread which didn't get derailed by and overvocal minority. People have been very decent in Sandwich's tactica thread, keeping it to fixing rules issues or adding suggestions. Could we have the same kind of decorum on a thread about how to play against Hamelin. Having people shouting over any suggestions with litanies about how it won't work as Hamelin is unbeatable is not helpful. If there is a rule issues with the post that will make it not work then point it out. A lot of the rebukes seem to be "THAT WON'T WORK, if I activate all my models and all there abilities hit your model will be dead if you try that". Replying to something like the discussion of Sonnia's Flame Burst "you will have to watch out as her ability is only 10" and a lot of the Stolen and Hamelin's abilities have longer range" would have been enough, and at least warned opposing players to take this into account.

:]

I've decided to give the roaring a rest already.

Pinky swear.

I think our problem is that I am the only player willing to play Hamelin.

Which is actually because before Hamelin ever came out, I played him a lot, too. And I won constantly.

Albeit a few slip ups.

Like the way we counted Blight Counters to add damage on a one for one.

Thank god we fixed that, though.

And I play ruthlessly, so you can see why there is now a problem in which everyone else is far too concerned with him being no fun to play against. :[

I'm going to use the organized play rules, which escape and survive is not available in

Since you did not list an objective for hamelin, I am going to assume it will be shared contain power. In which case I will take colette, cassandra, the duet, 1 showgirl, 1 gunslinger and 2 soulstones. I would announce bodyguard for myself, and grudge on one of the rats.

depending on deployment, the duet or coryphee seperated would try to hunt down the stolen, moving 27 inches a round. I would also have a mannaquin with them trying to make them immune to weak damage. The gunslinger / showgirl / colette would attempt to lure rat catchers into gunslinger range or out of rat armor range. with the gunslinger I would use his AOE attack to try to paralyze the catcher / rats (assuming you wont discard, or making you toss cards to do so) and then I would just start plucking some damage on him. on colettes go I would try to finish him off. lots of if's there, but I would see what I could do.

In reality the rest of the game would play out depending on how we react to each other. if I got the upper hand and some nice flips I would try to take out hamelin, but this is a bad scenario to fight him on, I agree. Its equally bad to face von schill and colette in this scenario. With the objectives I picked and colette I think the very worst I could do is 8 victory points. which would tie the best hamelin could do, so we draw. I'm ok with taking a draw in this scenario against hamelin, von schill, or colette.

Edit - Leveticus is also a real SOB at contain power.

Typically I play arcanists, so colette would be my go to for this. however, I also play neverborn and was thinking about it. I would probably try the same strategy with the nekima lelu lelitu lore bomb. Everything in the hamelin crew is low WP except hamelin, so they could probably drain models down relatively quickly, especially since she could cast it without really worrying about using her own cards. she and lelu both go at the same time, so I would let him kill the rat catcher if I could get him out of the rat safety net. Its a pretty terrifying heavy army, which hamelin has issues with, and fast enough to catch the stolen. I think this army would pose huge problems to hamelin in a lot of scenarios, I will give this exact scenario a test as soon as my roomate gets home from work.

Hm.

Wouldn't you be worried about Collette being so frail versus Hamelin?

His pipes do 1/3/3 and his Cb is 7.

So I'd be scared of a (0)Fate is Meaniningless + moderate / severe. :[

Just saying, I don't know if Bodyguard would be the best choice.

I mean, I know she's mobile but eh, Hamelin's pretty nasty.

I could definately see the Coryphee duet being a real pain.

But the two times I've ever gone up against them the on their Wp never seemed to help. :[

It'd be very interesting to play against you someday, for fun.

Your opponent will definitely get slaughter. But you will probably still win by getting your schemes and denying their's

I killed 95 points worth of models in slaughter against him. He still had 42 on the table (not including the 10 points for hamelin) in a 35 point game.

Took 3 and half hours and ended mid turn 4. Last time i played against him.

also, out of curiosity, why wouldn't you start with 2 ratcatchers?

Yeah, that's really the only way to get around Slaughter.

Also, if they take a bunch of high cost models it is sometimes possible to tie them before they get overwhelmingly high numbers.

So its a real funny game for a while.

As for Rat Catchers, I've just found taking one to be a lot more effective than two.

It's basically a toss up between taking all 8 SS or two Rat Catchers.

On one hand, your Rats get 3 guaranteed activations, which is vastly increased mobility and isn't at all a bad thing.

But I've found that the 8 Soul Stones allows you to spread Insignificant much more effectively and therefore makes the single Rat Catcher you do have survive the entire game, but at a cost of mobility.

Which has never been detrimental to my gameplay.

Am I right in saying that if the Ratcatcher does "kill all rats" and, as the name implies, kills all the rats and get new ones that this auto fails? I've not got my book on me but seem to remember "grudge" is the melee one?

That's great until Hamelin makes them insignificant and then sets them up so they can only target him - especially as the effect carries over to them both if you split the duet. At least, that's how I'd try and counter it :hmmmm:

To the prior, yes, Grudge would fail immediately as your master would not be killing the Rats. :[

That is exactly how I'd counter it.

Though (1)Inevitable Truth could be easily ignore by simply moving 13" away from Hamelin.

Although I would then keep my swarm within a foot of Hamelin.

Hm.

By the way - as Ratty pointed out - this thread has ALSO now been derailed by the vocal minority so I'm abandoning it to the wilds of theorifaux.

I'm going to talk with a few people about some tactics and then post a kind of "anti-tacticia" next week which can be maintain as a living document for now.

As for the debate, I'm goingt o take a step back from the front line as it's p***ing me off way to much now

Hey,

I'm being good, right?

I like the idea of an anti tactica.

When you post the thread I'll contribute.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Sandwich

[Ratty]

Collette is one of the toughest masters in the game, she can create SS like no-one's buisiness and can use Slow to Die to heal. If you can get the Black Joker in your hand she is almost impossible to kill.

[Dolomyte]

good point on grudge, might have to pick something else.

Hookers you seem to think you can jsut send the rats and ignore everything else, why is that? do you think the ratcatchers are unkillable

my other question is how are people summoning so many rats? you said you killed 90 VP worth of models with 40 still on the table? I just dont get what your doing to accomplish that, are you fighting him with gremlins and summoning hordes of them.

[Hookers]

Hookers you seem to think you can jsut send the rats and ignore everything else, why is that? do you think the ratcatchers are unkillable

yes, because they come back.

they drop a rat when they die. so they really only cost you 2 rats. plus you are getting rats from the stolen as well, so you don't even need to be killing other models to keep the train going, but since you are anyways, it's pretty easy.

i killed that many points of models because i was bombing the crap out of rats. didn't change anything but 10 SS of pts for slaughter out of one blast ain't bad.

so over the course of the game i killed god knows how many rats and stolen, and 3 rat catchers. Hamelin had 1 wd left and 0 ss. he still pretty much had everything he started with +/- rats and stolen.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Hookers

[Dolomyte]

Well lets take a more in depth look at that game and maybe we can learn something from it.

Did killing the rat catcher(s) take all of your resources for a turn? who were you using? was he activating all the rats simultaineously or was it staggered. (IE he is keeping them all 4 inches apart, but somehow within 6 of a ratcatcher (so they come back) In the games i've played, It does not seem impossible to kill a catcher and then pick off 2 or 3 rats that are now outside the protective barrier of ressurection.

What list were you using, what was his objective? what schemes did you guys take?

[Sandwich]

good point on grudge, might have to pick something else.

Hookers you seem to think you can jsut send the rats and ignore everything else, why is that? do you think the ratcatchers are unkillable

my other question is how are people summoning so many rats? you said you killed 90 VP worth of models with 40 still on the table? I just dont get what your doing to accomplish that, are you fighting him with gremlins and summoning hordes of them.

There's plenty of other kill schemes you could take.

Kidnap for neverborn, First Blood for Vicks, a few others I think.

The Rat Catchers are, in all honestly, unkillable if you take care of them.

I wouldn't rely on the Rat Swarm 100% to beat you down but it is a possibility.

I'm 100% certain I've never seen 40 rats on board at once.

That's just a figurative figure.

yes, because they come back.

they drop a rat when they die. so they really only cost you 2 rats. plus you are getting rats from the stolen as well, so you don't even need to be killing other models to keep the train going, but since you are anyways, it's pretty easy.

i killed that many points of models because i was bombing the crap out of rats. didn't change anything but 10 SS of pts for slaughter out of one blast ain't bad.

so over the course of the game i killed god knows how many rats and stolen, and 3 rat catchers. Hamelin had 1 wd left and 0 ss. he still pretty much had everything he started with +/- rats and stolen.

On average, that's doing really well to drop Hamelin so low.

Was he not spreading Insignificant?

[Dolomyte]

Since you play hamelin sandwich, im curious, what is your counter to the Lelitu / Nekima bomb? on turn two I can usually have two lelitu's chain luring your WP 5 models to their death. (her cast of 8 versus their wp of 5, with her autotriggering with nekima's buff) It's 18 in range is also out of the treat range of most of your models.

[Sandwich]

Since you play hamelin sandwich, im curious, what is your counter to the Lelitu / Nekima bomb? on turn two I can usually have two lelitu's chain luring your WP 5 models to their death. (her cast of 8 versus their wp of 5, with her autotriggering with nekima's buff) It's 18 in range is also out of the treat range of most of your models.

Well the first big thing I have done against the Lili / Neki bomb is hit Lilitu with Insignificant, which is very easy to do as she'll be defending with a Wp of 3 versus your Ca of 7.

The Irresistible duel with Hamelin is a joke, whether she's activated or not, so that's no worry.

The scary part is that Hamelin is within 6 feet of Nekima and god knows how quickly she can hump your leg.

The hard Counter to the Lili / Neki problem is actually using Nekima against against Lilitu via your Pipes.

If I remember correctly, she only has a Df of 4 and cannot Use Soulstones, so your Pipes are a prime candidate for using her as a weapon versus your opponent and tagging Insignificant as well.

I've faced Nekima 3 times in total, only one of which was with Lilitu as well.

(It's usually the BBS :X)

If you can manage to get Nekima Insignificant, which is honestly not hard at all, (It's very easy to drop her Wp by 4, she's Df 4 and not terrifying, so your Rats & Rat Catcher will have a hayday with all of your Reactivating, And your Stolen are stupid easy to get placed right) you should 150% NOT NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS EVER AT ALL EVER DO NOT hit her with (1)Inevitable Truth as with a Wp of 2, she'll need to flip an 11 or higher to target your Rat Catcher or your Stolen (Given you aren't spamming (1)Bleeding Disease) and will be hardpressed to resist your numerous (1)Obedience so that she may nom on her fellow Neverborn.

The best thing you can do is initially focus on Nekima and use Hamelin to beacon Voracious Rats because you're going to be losing a Rat Catcher for a while.

Once Nekima is Insignificant and easily able to bash in her friend's faces, switch to Lilitu.

Once Lilitu's Wp is -2 (Possibly, though not usually -4 as her Df 6 is a tough nut to crack for your rats) you can drop an Insignificant on her, and she's now got to flip an 10 or higher as well to swing on your Rat Catchers / Stolen.

While I'm sure someone is going to say this is straight theoryfauxing, just look at the stats. Nekima and Lili are a baaaaaaaaad combo for some crews, but not Hamelin.

I've honestly found the Nekima / Lilitu list to not be nearly as bad as some other crews, like f*cking Colette or Perdita.

[magicpockets]

Sandwich, how are you dropping their WP by so much? Rabis gets you -2wp with a trigger until the end of the game and No Humanity gets you an additional -2wp until the end of the turn - however it needs a lot of stolen to keep this in play. Could you expand on this?

[Dolomyte]

When you guys play with hamelin on videotape, or whenever really, I would like one of your opponents to try the following list.

Lilith

Nekima

Lelu

Leliltu

Cherub

Terror Tot

7 soul stone cache

On turn one, the lilith player should activate lilith and nekima. Lilith should blood from stone, brood mother (to give companion to nekima), and then like earthquake to move everyone forward (keep it a relatively close brick). Nekima should go Blood offering to gain a second soulstone, nephilim heart (CA) and stay safe for now. Do the totem next, earthquake the group forward some more, then move up. I would defensive stance lelu and lelitu, and cast summon lelitu (sacrificing the cherub) if you have the 13 required to cast it.

nekima will heal 2 from lelitu, possibly all 4 damage if you summoned a second, activate her first for regen / nep heart. and then then totem (assuming you did not sac it yet) use earthquake to move your group forward. At this point lelitu, possible 2 lelitus, should be in range, and I would target everyone BUT hamelin. I think I would care less about hamelin, I would try to lure ratcatchers to their death, and then I would target nix, then any rats / stolen I can get my hands on.

It's by no means an automatic win, and requires a 13 in hand or on a flip for the second lelitu, but she should be able to lure out models with relative ease considering the low wp of hamelins army, even if she can only lure rats she should be luring 3 of them to their deaths a turn, none of which you will get respawns off of. that number jumps to six with a second lelitu

Edit - you want to keep the lelitus near nekima so when they kill stuff in range she gains a blood token, which you can use to grow the terror tot into a mature fairly quicky.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Dolomyte

[magicpockets]

I like how we're now starting to work out how to tackle Hamelin's crew - so much better than the flame wars we had over the weekend

I'm playing against a very good (don't tell him I said that) Collette player tonight so will report back

[Necromorph]

http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=223549&postcount=85

Is this new or did I miss something? I like that they finally broke his loop, but he feels too much like Levi now.

[Hookers]

Well lets take a more in depth look at that game and maybe we can learn something from it.

Did killing the rat catcher(s) take all of your resources for a turn? who were you using? was he activating all the rats simultaineously or was it staggered. (IE he is keeping them all 4 inches apart, but somehow within 6 of a ratcatcher (so they come back) In the games i've played, It does not seem impossible to kill a catcher and then pick off 2 or 3 rats that are now outside the protective barrier of ressurection.

What list were you using, what was his objective? what schemes did you guys take?

it doesn't have to be all my resources for a turn. they are resummoned the very next activation. i thought the key was killing the ratcatchers but they come back so easily that even they don't matter to hamelin.

ok i'll admit that i was playing gremlins. but i wasn't summoning stuff to mindlessly throw at rats. if you just try to kill stuff without worrying about what it is 90 SS isn't that tough. the rats just resummon to themselves. every time a skeeter activated that's at least 6 ss probably more. it adds up pretty quickly. also he ended the game with 40 SS of models, not 40 actual rats.

this game was about a month ago, and i'm not going to bother to add up the actual cost but my list was something like:

som'er

2-3 skeeters

pigapult

2 gremlins

2 slop haulers

taxidermist

2-3 stuffed pigs

however many SS that leaves me with

i had an assembly line of summon and kill a gremlin, summon a stuffed pig from the corpse, toss it across the field at hamelin. of course the pigapult itself is insignificant (i know its for fluffy reasons but in this case it just seems to add insult to injury), so i tried to shoot at nix the one chance i got, and otherwise just shot at ratcatchers and stolen and did damage with the blasts.

nix made a bee line for the pigapult and had one turn where he was conveniently completely in a forest that i couldn't shoot him. the game was pretty much over once he got next to the pigapult.

som'er did get a nice shot off on hamelin with either the red joker or dumb luck for 10 dg. hamelin had 9 wd left and with his last SS flipped moderate to stay at 1 wd. som'er was promptly made insignificant and then killed by rats anyways the so the insignificant didn't even matter. my last ditch effort was focusing a rat who was kind of close to hamelin with my last gremlin, actually hitting it, getting severe, and then pulling up a tenth of an inch shy of hamelin.

as far as killing hamelin i also only partly had the opportunity because he was going for his master specific scheme. he is normally a lot more careful with him.

i knew i had to get to 1.5 x 35 in order to get it because i was pretty sure nothing of mine was going to be left. fortunately i sacrificed a lot of my own stuff as well so i think he only killed 25 pts, if that.

90 pts, 40 left. obviously that wouldn't happen in a game where i didn't just kill rats for the sake of it. it's just a crazy number that isn't hyperbolic at all.

warpigs are a waste of time. they just get made insignificant. the pigapult is definitely the key for gremlins

i can't imagine not taking ratcatchers because they turn 2 pt models which are justifiably cheap because they are slow, into fast with an unprecedented 6 (0) actions (twice that of the coryphee's super instinctual)

inb4 lolgremlinssuckagainsthamelin no wonder you hate him.

1) i know

2) that isn't an excuse, no other match up in the game comes close to being like that

3) despite that, its not actually as bad as people think. gremlins are the masters of doing non-targeted damage because any time they have to pass a targeting restriction against anything, they will fail it

my first game against hamelin was with gremlins and i actually flipped contain power. i didn't reflip simply to see if it was as bad as everyone was saying. it was, but i learned a lot about him and how he works.

my position is not that he is over powered or unbeatable. most crews have ways of dealing with him. you just have to go really far out of your way and it tends to suck the fun out of the game. Seamus can walk all over him, but it doesn't make the game any more enjoyable.

even if you didn't change how you play at all, simply playing against hamelin feels like a giant waste of time. so much time is spent doing stuff that isn't flipping cards and having fun. also most of his mechanics break the game in a way that doesn't enhance the gameplay and is frustrating. he is set up to trick you into doing things that will only hurt you, and designed to not rely on cards. because of this his most powerful abilities are simply actions and do not require you to even flip cards. turning half of the (0) actions into spells would take a lot of the frustration out of it, and make it seem like the hamelin player is actually doing something. like i said i have a fairly long write up on all of the ways that i feel like hamelin makes the game not fun, breaks it in a way that is not obvious, and leads opposing players down non-optimal paths. a lot of him is "complexity for the sake of itself" rather than complexity that makes it interesting or fun or novel. i've watched the debates about him for awhile and have held my tongue, but no longer could because of the amount of frustration he brings to the game, especially for new players (which is probably the exact opposite of what wyrd intends to do).

to reiterate, i think hamelin is bad because he makes the game not fun, win or lose. if you beat hamelin you don't really care and are more like "where did my day go?" if you lose to hamelin you feel like there wasn't much you could've done differently, and that your opponent didn't really seem to do much either.

to hamelin fate is meaningless. but so are suits, cards in general, his own minions and even what his opponent does at all.

[Sandwich]

So we did a game of Sonia versus Hamelin in a 35 a little while ago.

Which went how I expected to go as soon as I woke up.

I had gotten a little under 2 hours of sleep and was suffering from after effects of a schizophrenic breakdown.

I'm not even sure what entirely happened but I'm fairly certain I lost.

WUWU, Hippie or Gunpowder Saint should be able to get on here and give the details I forgot.

From what I remember,

I spread too far because I thought, in my stupor, that Turf War was Stake a Claim

I really only though about spreading Insignificant and dealing damage with the Rats, so I completely neglected (1)Lure Malifaux Citizen and attempted to move quickly across the board.

I'm sure I remembered to have Nix use (0)Emptiness, but we completely ignored it.

I think I was confusing the Governor's Proxy for something else and actually charged a full 8" into a group of other models to kill it, which killed Nix in the process.

Although he shouldn't have died as I think he had to cheat to beat Nix, which he couldn't have done on a negative flip.

I'm not really sure what else I forgot but it was bad.

My girlfriend told me I shouldn't have gone because of my brain f*ckery but I said lolno and went anyway.

We'll do it again on thursday and I should be safe and sane enough to actually play and not be blah.

I'm gonna go back to bed now and probably wake up at 2-3 in the morning feeling cognitive.

It was fun, though.

From what I remember.

[Hookers]

so I completely neglected (1)Lure Malifaux Citizen and attempted to move quickly across the board.

haha we like to say that hamelin isn't really fast, because this ability is a must-do. "ok when he activates he gets a free stolen, then you get 2 AP. got it"

I'm sure I remembered to have Nix use (0)Emptiness, but we completely ignored it.

also a very big deal

:coffee: glad you enjoyed it though. i'm sure he's a lot of fun when you aren't doing the stuff that makes him silly. our first game we forgot about blight counters entirely. rats still ate everything in sight at essentially half their damage output.

also to be clear, when i first heard hamelin was going to become a master i was like "awesome!" and when i first heard people complaining, i blew it off. i read through his abilities and was like "ok that's pretty cool." it didn't dawn on me at all what (0) slaughter was really like until i saw it in action.

at first i was like and then i was like :dozingoff

Edited April 5, 2011 by Hookers

[Dolomyte]

we did my lilith list versus sandwich's hamelin list tonight. Prodigal had never played hamelin before, so some mistakes were made on his part, I also have never used nekima, so I think i missused her on a few occasions, but the game went mostly how I thought it would. I got lucky and got a 13 (and red joker actually) opening hand, and managed to get a second lelitu up and running early, by earthquaking the force forward I was in range to start pulling stuff to its death on the very first turn. Transposition was the MVP of the night, leading to hamelins first death, and the rat catchers death.

I still think Seamus or Pandora would walk over hamelin easier, but this particular lilith list will cause him trouble (he had slaughter, I had treasure hunt)

[Sandwich]

haha we like to say that hamelin isn't really fast, because this ability is a must-do. "ok when he activates he gets a free stolen, then you get 2 AP. got it"

also a very big deal

:coffee: glad you enjoyed it though. i'm sure he's a lot of fun when you aren't doing the stuff that makes him silly. our first game we forgot about blight counters entirely. rats still ate everything in sight at essentially half their damage output.

also to be clear, when i first heard hamelin was going to become a master i was like "awesome!" and when i first heard people complaining, i blew it off. i read through his abilities and was like "ok that's pretty cool." it didn't dawn on me at all what (0) slaughter was really like until i saw it in action.

at first i was like and then i was like :dozingoff

To be honest, I made a million and one mistakes.

I usually follow my protocol pretty strictly.

But today just wasn't my day and I got beat down pretty badly.

Albeit outside causes, a loss is still a loss.

[Sandwich]

we did my lilith list versus sandwich's hamelin list tonight. Prodigal had never played hamelin before, so some mistakes were made on his part, I also have never used nekima, so I think i missused her on a few occasions, but the game went mostly how I thought it would. I got lucky and got a 13 (and red joker actually) opening hand, and managed to get a second lelitu up and running early, by earthquaking the force forward I was in range to start pulling stuff to its death on the very first turn. Transposition was the MVP of the night, leading to hamelins first death, and the rat catchers death.

I still think Seamus or Pandora would walk over hamelin easier, but this particular lilith list will cause him trouble (he had slaughter, I had treasure hunt)

In a little, I'll post up a big fat list of things-to-do on the Tactica page, have Prodigal check it out when its up and play again. :]

[WUWU]

We'll get a real battle report up after thursday. Sandwich was obviously off his game, and the match was decided after one turn basically. With that said, Gunpowder Saint had a pure genius strategy for nailing Treasure Hunt and his schemes, so it would have been a tough battle regardless, though Sonnia did absolutely nothing noteworthy during the game, he may as well have been playing Lucius.

If our game today showed anything, it really reinforced how much the Rat Catchers are the lynch pin to the whole crew, and I think that starting two is an absolute must.

Ham

2 Ratchers

Nix

The Stolen

4 Rats.

7 SS cache

Hide The Stolen and Nix, brick up the rest of the crew and go to town. I may even drop Nix is certain Matchups/Strategies. I think one The Stolen is definitely enough to keep Hamelin on the board for the entire game, now with the errata.

[Bozzy]

My local henchman plays hamlin and im a main pandora player super competetive (will play other lists in fun games but will go hard core othertimes)...sandwich ive used a lot of ur tactics to prepare against facing certain armies respectem a lot just wanted to throw that out thier.....ill do some testing with pandora and zoraida vs hamlin and post my results..

with any master you want to play your game and not allow your opponent to.play his..(somtimes easier said than done)..know your str,s..your schemes ur strategies..be a better more knowledgable player than your opponents....yes hamlin is top tier but not oped...(had to hear that a lot as a pandora player)

Sorta went off on tangent thier but just sayibg whatever comes to mind from my phone lol.. Will definitly answer questions involving pandora zoraida collodi marcus or soniaa reguarding hamlin if anyone has them.