Does anyone else find Insidious Madness broken?

[Sandwich]

Now I've never played against anyone using Insidious Madness, but I have seen it used fairly broadly though. I will withdraw my opinion from this conversation regardless.

With Pandora especially, my LGS has kind of unanimously agreed that Insidious Madness is a wee tad broken.

It seems to stem fairly exlusively from the massive Wd it deals from failed Wp duels, in unison with the fact that it has some way to either give you a -Wp, a or stop you from cheating altogether.

Can I get a little more feedback on this topic from the community?

Strengths, weaknesses, workarounds, et cetera.

Please. :]

[Mach_5]

Well, they are only 3 wounds, so even though they're a spirit they are very easy to kill. They don't do much damage themselves, and are best at grabbing objectives and putting Wp penalties (ie ) on the enemy. So when they jump out to hit you with :-fateWp you have one turn to put it down or move all your models away before the other neverborn have their way with you.

[MrNybbles]

It looks like a decent model for Pandora at 4ss, though 3 magic Dg will take it down in one hit. Offensive magic wielding Masters like Criid, Nicodem, Raimos, Rasputina, and Colette should do okay. Seamus has a .50 Flintlock that can kill one a turn after he wins that pesky Psychosis Wp duel. All these models may use Soulstones if you really need to kill them. Other crews will just have to deal with the Psychosis Wp duel and deal enough damage.

Also, Pandora can remove immunities to Wp Duels.

Its only low stat is 2 Ca which makes it difficult for all models to hit except for Colette, Cassandra (via Understudy) and Mechanical Doves with Magician's Duel. Does anyone know of any other attacks that are resisted with Ca?

[mythicFOX]

I suppose it's better with Pandy's range. I keep tripping over the one I use in my Dreamer Crew.

I know it's Df6 but you should be able to take out a Df6 spirit with 3 wounds and minimal ranged offence.

[magicpockets]

Classic case of rock arguing paper is broken but scissors are perfectly balanced...

[Genetic]

I personally love the madness.. i dont know if id call it broken..

[karn987]

Yeah he really is balanced man, it's just knee jerk reactions of people who don't know how to combat it with Pandora. Sure it's great for her, but its also fairly easy to kill and with the right timing you can make the Madness a headache for Pandora.

I'll tell you one thing I learned, never pop that Aura with an Obey model on your opponents side of the field. Madness came back to me and said "HI! I'm here to ruin your day! /bends-you-over"

It is a great model, but it's not a Corphyee or a Punk Zombie at all, it merely just helps Pandora do what she does. The negative flip with no resist on Wp duels is a great help to her against some of the more powerful models in the game (like masters and Corphyee etc).

But its only 3 Wds, yes it is a Spirit but 2 hits will generally kill it. Or one decent spell will take it down. Df 6 is nice but its offensive power is a little low without Pandora around to capitalize on it.

Pandora is the true Master of "Stronger together then the sum of it's parts". Pandora's strongest crews are much more potent then most people realize because she has such amazing synergy and teamwork with her crew and their abilities. Really it just takes a learned player to deal with this, but it won't be an easy fight. It never is.

But broken? Sandwhich I think your knee is jerking a bit man. Give them some more time and play against them some more. They have to get close to do their meanest trick (Psychopathic Episode) But can hang around at 10" and harrass with guns. But how is that any meaner then the Guild doing it? With Emotional Stress and Trauma around, its about as powerful as a Guild Peacebringer it just uses more models to get there. They have to get in close to do PE, but with 8" wk they can generally get there from cover. So you have to be ready for this coming, you need to spread out a bit and keep an eye on them. Kill one when you get a chance and just be ready to fight back against one as once they move in, they are not that hard to gank. It's Pandora activating afterward that you must be warry off, so you always have the option of backing off or just charging ahead.

[The Green Git]

Now I've never played against anyone using Insidious Madness...

I believe this may be the problem. A lot of things SEEM broken on paper but once you put them down on the table a few things come to light that don't lend themselves to immediate visualization.

I won't regurgitate others posts but will say like other crews it's strong in the right situation, and can backfire in others. Proxy one and play a couple games with it and against it before you pass judgment.

[Sandwich]

Threadomancy inbound.

I suppose I was not explicit in my post in saying "I am not including my opinion as I am very uneducated on the subject matter but am asking in order to gather information from others."

I have since the posting of this thread played against Insidious.

In both Dreamer and Pandora lists.

With the Dreamer, it's nigh useless when compared to other available models, but with Pandora, it seems like a big fat glowing death trap if positioning favors you.

I did not once state that I though the Insidious Madness was broken, because I had not played it.

The argument has subsided as Pandora is now underplayed locally, but I'll sit against the "Insidious Madness is OP."

[Sandwich]

Oh no, I did say I will withdraw my opinion in the first line.

Har har har.