question about Seamus

[(Keenan)]

Hello all. I picked up Seamus' box a couple weeks ago because I love the model and well who doesn't love half dead hookers? Anyway te question. I have after playing a couple games at 20ss is: can Seamus be competitive? I can do the research on how to make him competitive if he is, but I'm wondering if I should have him as a fun crew and pick up another for competition? Thanks all

-Keenan

[Hookers]

Seamus is extremely competitive. a couple of things that can be easily overlooked:

HANDCANNON - his gun is 4/6/7 but can only be fired once per turn so make sure its a good one and focus it and soulstone it to really blast someone's head off, red joker for damage on this puppy will kill pretty much any model in the game short of hard to kill

terrifying can be absolutely devastating to models who are not immune so don't forget to use it

Undead Psychosis can really waste a model's activation so use it all you can, once you get the hang of how this spell works your opponent will probably get pretty frustrated by his inability to do anything if you are using it well

HE WILL NEVER DIE - healing up when nearby living and undead models die as well as hard to wound 2 and hard to kill make Seamus one of the hardest models in the game to kill

outside of sybelle his starting box crew does lack some damage output so go with all your other models first to try and make your opponent waste cards and then trigger slit jugular with seamus on an important enemy model to get that sweet instakill when they have no cards left

he's not the best summoner and it can be a waste of resources so generally don't waste your time with it as his other (0) actions are usually better and you can use those high crows for other things (like slit jugular)

and with any master, remember to play to the strategy. most of them don't really require you to kill enemy models necessarily so his crew's lack of damage output may not matter, and they are very good at staying alive which may be all you need.

bodyguard is usually an all but guaranteed scheme with him. usually with schemes i try to pick ones that can mitigate my strategy, rather than coincide with, so if it becomes clear that i cannot obtain my strategy i can still complete my schemes for a draw or maybe even a victory. for instance, if they have contain power don't pick bodyguard because even though it's easy to say well as long as seamus stays alive then i win, what if he doesn't? the goal with selecting schemes should be that seamus could die, yet you still win because you were able to complete your schemes and your opponent didn't

Yep, undead hookers rule, seamus is a lot of fun to play but very competitive as well. he's not as straight forward as other masters so you may not do well while you learn his intricacies but when you do you will be difficult to beat. i have won many tournaments with the crazy bastard. Also look around the forums for other tactics guides other people have made, I haven't read most of them so there is probably a lot of overlap but it will still be useful to get another perspective while you are learning him.

as far as expanding his crew i really like the hanged (the WP game complements seamus well), bete noire can give you some more damage output but is fragile and needs to be brought in at opportune times, crooked men can give some more ranged attacks to complete his gun and additional board control with your belles assisting, a lot of people like punk zombies for their melee prowess (i'm just not into samurai zombies for whatever reason)

Edited December 18, 2010 by Hookers

[Doctor Amos]

He (generally) favors hit-and-run tactics, making him more effective against tough but slow-moving crews. His personal unkillability helps to dampen damage from faster crews, but it isn't his favorite. Also, like nearly all Ressers, he favours living enemies.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Doctor Amos

[hippieshopper]

I wouldn't always rely on the .50 Flintlock...make sure you have a really high card and/or a soulstone when you use that baby.

The damage is outstanding but the Cb is average, and most people will do whatever they can to block it.

Also, Bete Noire is a good choice with Seamus because she shares the same hit-and-run system. She is a good choice if you need to stomp, or rather...stab, a mud hole in your enemy.

Lastly, Lure can be used on your guys as well, so don't be afraid to use it and "tie" the flip so you can get your hombres out of the battle.

[CaptC]

Someone said Bete is fragile. Really? What kills her?

Keep a 10-spot in your hand, any suit, so you can rebury her using One With The Night. Slow to Die means she can always cast it. She might lose an activation, but she'll be coming back the next time something dies.

As long as you watch out for effects that say "you're dead" regardless of wounds, she's well nigh un-killable.

[Hookers]

4 wds without hard to wound is fragile.

if you pull her out after YOU just killed a model (and therefore your opponent gets to activate next) she is probably already dead. who cares if she can keep coming back if you never actually get to use her. You have to be careful when you deploy her. otherwise you are just wasting your 10s

[hippieshopper]

What Hookers said, she may have a lot of Df but she doesn't have the health or any of the cool Undead like things that make her resilient.

No Spirit or Hard to Wound.

Also if you go against Sonnia, she's likely to try and whack you with her sword and silence you.

[CaptC]

What Hookers said, she may have a lot of Df but she doesn't have the health or any of the cool Undead like things that make her resilient.

No Spirit or Hard to Wound.

Also if you go against Sonnia, she's likely to try and whack you with her sword and silence you.

Well, hard to use is not the same as fragile. If nothing else, making your opponent respond to Bete keeps other stuff alive. I haven't had much difficulty getting Bete to take her actions, and she has scary potential to kill stuff.

Sonia's not big in our meta here, but thanks for the tip. I'll be careful if my Seamus runs into Sonia.

[Sandwich]

Dear Keenan, your thread has spiraled away from its original intent.

To your question, yes Seamus is competitive, as is every other master in the game.

Seamus, however, unlike several other masters, requires finesse. He is made to be invincible but this is not a stalwart fact. If you act foolishly, you can expect to see utter decimation. His core crew, with the addition of a Totem, (Which we all know is absolutely optional) is perfect for starter games or 25 SS tournament games.

In that crew, you have ALL of the tools necessary to obtain success in ANY strategy or scheme you may have, this includes Slaughter.

Practically anyone who plays against me can confirm the truth of my claims.

Bete Noir is most certainly a solid addition to your crew and can, if resources are managed, be invincible.

This immortality applies much like it does to Seamus, if you use her foolishly, she can and will die.

CaptC, you're relatively correct in what you're saying, but you want to use the Belles to distract your opponent from Bete, not use Bete to distract your opponent from your Belles.

They are sturdy and replaceable, she is not.

[(Keenan)]

Thank you everyone for the replies, that was a lot more helpful info than I expected. One last question and it's a quick one: what is the standard points for tournaments with Malifaux? Knowing this will be a huge help as I build my crew.

[Doctor Amos]

35 is pretty standard, although smaller ones sometimes use 25.

[Sandwich]

All Tournaments led by a Henchmen in my LGS were 25 SS.

[Keltheos]

plan on a 25-35 point range and you'll be safe. It does vary depending on the Henchman.

[(Keenan)]

now i'm trying to round out a 35 point list and having some problems. i'm trying to have a competitive all comers crew. here's what i got:

seamus

copycat

3 belles

bette

3 stones

i don't know if i should get another shooter like convict gunslinger or a fighter and if so which?

[Keltheos]

Convict. Your list currently needs a little bit more ranged capability.

[cannonball]

I'd throw in a Crooked Man or 2 and a Hanged. Drop a Belle to pay for it. You can Ress one later.

[Soundwave]

Here's a 35-list I've used with great success. I'm not really sure what the CCK does there, but he's cute, so what the hell.

Do note that I'm fairly new to the game, so I'm sure this list is far from optimal.

Seamus

3 Belles

Madame Sybelle

Convict Gunslinger

CCK

Bête Noire

2 Cache

[(Keenan)]

What do you guys think of the flesh construct? Big dude, lots of wounds, good combat, hard to wound, and I get 2 counters to raise belles if it does die. Am I missing a downside?

[ItchyDani3l]

Keep in mind that you need versitality with your crew.

If you only have 35 SS worth of models, then you won't have as much versatility.

If you own 40 or 45 SS worth of models, you can usually be better prepared to face a wider variety of missions/factions.

[hippieshopper]

What do you guys think of the flesh construct? Big dude, lots of wounds, good combat, hard to wound, and I get 2 counters to raise belles if it does die. Am I missing a downside?

Don't use him if you need to do something strategic...IE Treasure Hunt because at the end of every turn he moves and wallops whatever is near him.

Also...Dumb is a pain in the butt sometimes unless you drop the Black Joker and make him fast.

Other than that, he's lovely.

He's perfect for a bullet soaking thicky but he doesn't seem like something Seamus would use, his Belles are pretty unkillable and for 3 points less.

He's also immune to Wp duels whereas the Belles are not.

[Hookers]

its all about the strategy you pull. there is no reason to ever have an all comers list in malifaux because you always make a list after you know what you and your opponent are trying to do, and what faction your opponent is.

[Keltheos]

An all comers list is still good to plan for so you have access to whatever tools you might need in a fight, especially if you're planning on buying 'just' that force and not really looking to expand/swap in the future.

A local player has a good Dreamer force but lacks the punch when he fights Kirai due to his lack of magical attacks. Likewise he does fine vs. gunline lists, but could use some ranged support other than just his Stitched Together.

[hippieshopper]

its all about the strategy you pull. there is no reason to ever have an all comers list in malifaux because you always make a list after you know what you and your opponent are trying to do, and what faction your opponent is.

That is true but in a tournament situation, sometimes you are only allowed one list.

[(Keenan)]

That is the situation that I will be running into for a while i think. The game is really just starting to take off at my LGS and until people really start getting into it the events that they run are going to be one list. Although i do see why having a lot of resources would be better. It's a little odd going from GW games where you have a list to something that can change every round. Thank you for the info. I think I'm going to get the pieces i think will come in handy (hanged, crooked men, and the construct) just to have them available.