How to make the most of an activation

[Zombie_Pimp]

In case you didn’t know, this can all be considered IMHO.

Hi so I’ve been playing Malifaux since May (Ressies mostly but dabbling in the other factions) and if there is one significant thing I’ve learned it’s how important it is to make the most of an activation. (Note: I didn’t say I always know how to make the most of an activation) It has nothing to do with synergy or and specific model tactics it a broad and actually really simple thing to get down and for new players it is vital to get this at least somewhat figured out when making a game plan.

I personally feel there are two important ways to divide how a typical game of Malifaux is going. And as such will divide this post into two topics 1: “the waiting game” 2: “the killing time” then I will hopefully be able to get into some examples of each

1: the waiting game

This is the early part of the game where you are trying to get your opponent to activate before you in order for him to ether move his models into your model(s) respective threat range(s). Tthis is done best by having many models or just a few models that you can “waste” and activation on such as on having a “link in” model link in then end its activation.

But why are you doing this? Why are you “wasting” these activations when you have better things to do? Because good things come to those who (out)wait. I cannot tell you how many times I have had my master activate first and then had my opponent move a model into his/her threat range knowing I can’t do anything about it this turn or I’ve seen someone spring a trap a single activation too early because he ran out of other activations to do. Another added bonus is that if your opponent is done activating his models before you all your remaining models effectively have companion for free

One solution during list making:

· Bring cannon fodder. With Rising Powers every faction has access to 2-3ss models who wile maybe not good for anything else can let you save a big activation for later and this to me is worth 2-3ss every time. Or heck, bring a totem and use its activation first.

Some solutions during game play:

· Think before you act(ivate) is that big impressive model going to do something that can’t wait, no, then let it wait. Does so and so’s companion have activate right now, no, then it can also wait.

· Early game its is usually better to have you activation order go from little wimpy model to big scary model

The caveat of caveats: there are some masters and even minions in the game who can set up an out of turn action a good example of this is Perdita with Quickdraw. in this situation it MAY be worth it to activate Perdita or whoever early and set up to hopefully Quickdraw an enemy model who is about to activate

[Zorlath]

In all games that alternate activating models until both players have finished activating all their models, I've found most of this to be true.

Having a higher number of models is good, so you can activate your key models after you've seen how your opponent is going to move his key models.

[Sandwich]

There shouldn't be a waiting game if you really want to win.

Turn one my units are moving into place for whatever tactic I want.

Turn two, my enemy is losing.

[icemantis99]

Problem is, if I wait til after you've already gone after your objective for the turn, I can make the following turn veeeeeeery hard for you. Make you face choices between saving one model or the other, achieving one thing or the other, or just plain kill some dudes of yours, since you have no way to respond.

He's talking something like 5 little models, 2-3 big models vs. 5-6 medium models. I can use my big models after all of your models have already exhausted themselves.

[Zombie_Pimp]

@Zorlath: Yeah I guess I should rephrase that this is for people who haven’t played in an alternating activations games much. Most people I know who are playing Malifaux are more used to a turn based systems.

@Sandwich: while I don't disagree how important positioning yourself for a win can be. many people tend to IMHO "jump the gun" by putting key units in a threat range in order to do so or even worse doing some kind of massive companion activation that means there opponent can now walk all over them for a turn there is no invincible model in the game (no matter what Leveticus thinks) and any model in an opponent’s threat range after the first activation of a turn is as good as dead before the turn is over. also remember there are six turns to the game being in postion turn one doesn't not equal winner or losing.

[Keltheos]

There shouldn't be a waiting game if you really want to win.

Turn one my units are moving into place for whatever tactic I want.

Turn two, my enemy is losing.

:hahaha:

[Sandwich]

I think a rules marshall just laughed at me.

Sadface

And

It takes all but one minute to dissect the battlefield and find the 3-7 key locations you need your people to be.

I never once mentioned an alpha strike movement for turn one, so I don't know how you'd figure my wee little people would be in any real danger.

[AvatarForm]

There shouldn't be a waiting game if you really want to win.

Turn one my units are moving into place for whatever tactic I want.

Turn two, my enemy is losing.

^Sounds suspiciously like my Warmachine games with my Cryx...

However, if/when I win a game of Malifaux, its never this straight forwards... I have been assassinated before and won on count back... other times it comes to the very final close when you just reach/do not reach your goals...

OP - thanks for this handy little palm card annotation. Im gonna print up a few for the learners and even some of the aging pros at club to have beside them if they feel stressed or lose their focus. It makes everything mroe fun for all when you arent losing it over a tabletop skirmish...

[velri]

while fairly new to malifaux, and it being my first tabletop wargaming thingy,

id have to say ive very quickly learned alot of this to be true.. but there are always exceptions

waiting to see what your opposition is doing is nice for being able to best figure out how to go about stopping them, but some times there is just stuff you want to do first especially with zoraida and her nifty conduit

but going first sometimes might also be good to try and funnel your opposition into a trap and get them to move where youd would prefer them to cause you make some alternate routes more dangerous than they would like

now dont ask me how i do that cause im still working that one out.... and not very quickly >.>

[MrNybbles]

In general I like slow-playing like Zombie_Pimp suggests though there are always exceptions (usually objective-orientated).

Normally I use turn one for getting into position because both my crew and my opponent's crew are unable to make ranged attacks at each other for various reasons (though models like Hans are an exception).

"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.

If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.

If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself." -- The Art of War

Most models will fall into some sort of roll. Are they ranged, melee, support, or a debuffer? This is important because at some point you will need to put your models into harm's way and your opponent will probably too. However, some abilities do not require line of sight and may hit you unexpectedly though a solid wall.

In Colette's crew I usually try to activate Cassandra first not only because she is (+1) Nimble and can be pushed 6" at the start of the game for taking objectives but also because Talents such as Celebrity, Southern Charm, and Sultry can help defend her. However, several models are Terrifying or Ruthless and can make ranged attacks negating these defenses. Convict Gunslinger is a good example.

Models such as Hans should activate once they have sight of a target, probably after the opponent has used most or all of the control cards in hand.

Models like Colette I like to activate last. By the end of the turn (especially the first turn) I'll know what I can safely get away with. I can exchange control cards for Soulstones, create another Mechanical Dove for later, or move around and attack. Colette has a lot of options and at the end of the turn it's easier to figure out what I should do. Also, getting rid of 2 to 4 control cards early for Soulstones will tell your opponent you don't have much of an ability to cheat fate.

[Sandwich]

The harder you press the opposition the more they have to respond to the immediate situation presented to them and the less they have to respond to their overall tactic.

Played against Nico and had his Vultures down turn two with a nurse at half health.

He lost his Flesh Golem turn three, his punk zombies turn four, and Nicodem turn five.

Final total was my 6VP to his -2VP.

My strategy was Claim Jump, schemes were Bodyguard on Seamus and assassinate on Nicodem.

Nico had Distraction, which I denied him.

He had Death after Death, which was clearly not happening.

And another one he never announced and I never took the time to learn.

I am by no means saying you should act brashly, but sitting and waiting for your opponent to do something is not really the best way to go about things.

Force a situation upon him, and then take advantage of his reaction.]

Do this consistently and show them you're a force to be reckoned with.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Sandwich

[icemantis99]

We're just saying- forcing a reaction is wonderful, but firing your big guns/models early is a terrible idea, they're too fragile in Malifaux. Big models in Malifaux tend towards the "Death Star" type- big, unbelievably destructive, ridiculously expensive, and with a laughably easy way to kill them.

I do agree that just sitting and waiting is a bad idea. But if you have the momentum and the position, forcing them to spend their actions first lets you murder without fear of retaliation.

[Sandwich]

I suppose that since I play Seamus and my crew is made up of literally one minion type - Rotten Belles, I'd be using a completely different strategy to decimation than someone using a master like Lilith, who has many weak models and then larger strong ones such as herself or a Mature Nephilim.

I apologize for using a crew centric strategem as an example in this thread.

[icemantis99]

I suppose that since I play Seamus and my crew is made up of literally one minion type - Rotten Belles, I'd be using a completely different strategy to decimation than someone using a master like Lilith, who has many weak models and then larger strong ones such as herself or a Mature Nephilim.

I apologize for using a crew centric strategem as an example in this thread.

Ian (The OP) Uses Seamus primarily as well. Generally, he leaves Seamus (and Killjoy, depending on crew lists. But he really likes the big fella) back to cover his Belles as they zip around and do what he needs done.

Overall, my plan for getting the most out of a turn is as follows:

1. Have a Plan and Do It as Best You Can.

This means ha you need to have a goal in mind every turn. Are you going to try and engage the enemy and damage them as much as possible? are you going to try and get models to certain areas? Are you going to try and say out of combat and get good positioning? once you know what you're after, you need to figure out how best to accomplish that goal. Do you want to advance under cover, or just run all-out and get there ASAP? Do you want to minimize your own losses, or kill at all costs? Once you have a battle plan, stick to it. But not to the point of blind obiedience, which leads into point 2...

2. Build as Much Flexibility Into Your Plan as Possible

If the enemy adapts to your tactics and can overcome them, you're hosed. Make sure this doesn't happen by always having a fall-back plan if your first approach doesn't work, and hopefully a fall-back for the fall-back. This doesn't mean you should abandon your overall goal, just change your specific method of going about doing it. If you keep getting shot to pieces as you advance, leapfrog into cover, draw their fire with decoys, and so on. If they outmuscle you, outmaneuver them. A battle is not a stable or static thing, it's a maelstrom of plans and secret agendas, with a good heaping helping of chance thrown in. But just because you can never predict the battle's turns and twists, it doesn't mean you should give up.

3. Never Give Up, Never Surrender

Tzu said it, of course. Morale is he backbone of any army, and if you can take the heart from the enemy general, you've won. One thing I note a lot is the tendency of some of my fellow players to give up all hope of winning when things turn out bad for them. They just throw away the game rather than fight on. There's always a chance for victory, however remote, and if you fight til the end, you might jus get lucky. Of course, this doesn't mean you should throw your units into the grinder and hope to clog it with thier bodies. Following a hopeless situation to the bloody end is counterproductive. You need to keep your eye on the prize, and go for the big picture, not fight every single battle til you don't have any men left. This leads to my final point-

4. Don't Sweat the Little Stuff

As a wise man once said, "shit happens". Relax. Just because something didn't turn out right doesn't mean it's over. If your unit takes a big hit, or dies without doing anything like you wanted it to, it's okay! Really! You can fix it later down the line. Don't let yourself get drawn into the blow-by-blow fights, you need to manage how your crew is doing, not your single model. Does you no good to beat that enemy bastard into a paste if six other enemy bastards have snuck behind you and, to put it into the modern vernacular for a moment, "pwned ur base, d00d".

So overall, just remember four things.

1. Have a Plan.

2. Flexibility

3. Never Surrender

4. Relax! (It's a Game, You're Supposed to Have Fun!)

[Sandwich]

My personal plan is relatively similar.

But I hate Killjoy, unless my opponent is using him, then God please let them play him, oh please.

I take two minutes to dissect the battlefield and my personal goal.

I generally dedicate Sybelle and one to three of her compatriots to completing that goal and Seamus to absolutely ruining my enemy's plan.

[RisingPhoenix]

Yeah, see, Seamus doesn't seem to be a master who cares about these sorts of things.

Leveticus, on the other hand, could not possibly care more about turn order. First, he's a glass cannon if you want to poke people (0/1/12), so positioning is ridiculously important. Second, timing his death is important, and you absolutely do NOT want to die early in the turn order, as that gives your opponent maximum time to screw you. You want to make the decision late in the turn whether you want to die (or end on one wound, same dif), or conserve things to respawn the waifs because your opponent is wasting his shots on them.

Third, the Industrial Age power, timed right, can devastate armies. I haven't actually played it, but just as a for instance, I'm pretty sure Leveticus could take half of Hamlin's models off the board in one well-timed activation of Ashes and Dust (nevermind what the turn can do). I've seen lesser versions if people try to swarm, and it's horrifying. Industrial Nightmare, well positioned, can burn to death many things.

[AvatarForm]

Ian (The OP) Uses Seamus primarily as well. Generally, he leaves Seamus (and Killjoy, depending on crew lists. But he really likes the big fella) back to cover his Belles as they zip around and do what he needs done.

Overall, my plan for getting the most out of a turn is as follows:

1. Have a Plan and Do It as Best You Can.

This means ha you need to have a goal in mind every turn. Are you going to try and engage the enemy and damage them as much as possible? are you going to try and get models to certain areas? Are you going to try and say out of combat and get good positioning? once you know what you're after, you need to figure out how best to accomplish that goal. Do you want to advance under cover, or just run all-out and get there ASAP? Do you want to minimize your own losses, or kill at all costs? Once you have a battle plan, stick to it. But not to the point of blind obiedience, which leads into point 2...

2. Build as Much Flexibility Into Your Plan as Possible

If the enemy adapts to your tactics and can overcome them, you're hosed. Make sure this doesn't happen by always having a fall-back plan if your first approach doesn't work, and hopefully a fall-back for the fall-back. This doesn't mean you should abandon your overall goal, just change your specific method of going about doing it. If you keep getting shot to pieces as you advance, leapfrog into cover, draw their fire with decoys, and so on. If they outmuscle you, outmaneuver them. A battle is not a stable or static thing, it's a maelstrom of plans and secret agendas, with a good heaping helping of chance thrown in. But just because you can never predict the battle's turns and twists, it doesn't mean you should give up.

3. Never Give Up, Never Surrender

Tzu said it, of course. Morale is he backbone of any army, and if you can take the heart from the enemy general, you've won. One thing I note a lot is the tendency of some of my fellow players to give up all hope of winning when things turn out bad for them. They just throw away the game rather than fight on. There's always a chance for victory, however remote, and if you fight til the end, you might jus get lucky. Of course, this doesn't mean you should throw your units into the grinder and hope to clog it with thier bodies. Following a hopeless situation to the bloody end is counterproductive. You need to keep your eye on the prize, and go for the big picture, not fight every single battle til you don't have any men left. This leads to my final point-

4. Don't Sweat the Little Stuff

As a wise man once said, "shit happens". Relax. Just because something didn't turn out right doesn't mean it's over. If your unit takes a big hit, or dies without doing anything like you wanted it to, it's okay! Really! You can fix it later down the line. Don't let yourself get drawn into the blow-by-blow fights, you need to manage how your crew is doing, not your single model. Does you no good to beat that enemy bastard into a paste if six other enemy bastards have snuck behind you and, to put it into the modern vernacular for a moment, "pwned ur base, d00d".

So overall, just remember four things.

1. Have a Plan.

2. Flexibility

3. Never Surrender

4. Relax! (It's a Game, You're Supposed to Have Fun!)

Oooh! I like this one also...

[Zombie_Pimp]

Wow I need to start logging on more

@icemantis99: I actually haven’t used killjoy since last time I played against you... most of the reason I like the big guy is how much attention he draws (he is a big fat scary model isn’t he) wile my bells go for VPs most people tend to go for killjoy which is exactly what I want but as you and the rest of our game group have started catching on to my little bluff I’ve been making extremely different crews… also I’m starting to love the shikome, can’t wait to see the models.

@Sandwich ok judging by what you have posted it sounds like you use your activation to attempt to control what your opponent does which is a very effective tactic and I won’t argue with that. Heck I really can’t argue if it works for you. I merely approach it from a different angle I attempt to control my opponent’s action with the threat of what my model CAN do in the remainder of the turn. Which I have found to be more effective for me using phrases like “well you know if you do that then I can…” or “are you sure that’s a good idea.” I force my opponent to make hard decisions. That’s actually the reason I LOVE Seamus. Just hold him and 1 bell for a late activation turns one and two because that’s a serious threat (bell moves and lures Seamus moves and shoots for those who haven’t had the good fortune to go up against a Seamus player) that lets me control a large part of the board “sure you can get that treasure you won’t hold it for long though ”

I think the mistake is with how I phrased it when I said wait I didn’t mean be passive I mean don’t activate your threatening models (seamus + a bell, Nino, Mature nephilim ect.) until later because when you activate them they have lost their threat for the turn. And most people being the short sighted animals we are don’t register threats if they aren’t imminent.

Now I just need to have time to write the second part of this little tactica, the “Killing Time” which I feel will get a lot more love

and @ AvatarForm glad you’re enjoying the thread I also like icemantis99's additional tactics though i will be using it to one day destroy him and his little waif too * laughs maniacally *

Edited September 21, 2010 by Zombie_Pimp