Drain Blood?

[Iamwyrd]

It probably has been answered already and there are a lot o threads to look through to find it.

But the young nephilim, when it kills a model it can activate drain blood to get a blood counter. Can it only do that once per activation due to it being a (0) activation. Or if it kills another model can is activate it again to gain more than one blood counter an activation.

Another question, If I obey my young neph to attack and it kills a model can I activate drain blood from an obeyed model, or can I only do it when I activate it?

Edited July 1, 2010 by Iamwyrd
added ques

[Monkeyclops]

Nope, just once per activation, as you said its a (0) Action and since you only get 1 (0) action per activation you can only use Drain Blood once per model per activation.

[Ropetus]

And during Obey you only get one (1) Action. That means no time for Drain Blood during Obey.

-Ropetus

[Wodschow]

I think we need an official voice on this one to be honest as it isn't all that clear.

If it's an activated ability like Perditas (0) Quick Draw, Seamus's (0) No Escape or (0) Smell Fear then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to use it several times per turn or in connection with an Obey.

My guess is that it's not an activated ability though, as it'd been much easier to just make it a hard-wired ability then and would make more sense.

[Ropetus]

I think we need an official voice on this one to be honest as it isn't all that clear.

How is it not clear? Drain Blood is a (0) Action like all those you listed, it only has an additional requirement for its use, just like Eat Your Fill. It is still subject to the restriction of only one (0) Action per activation.

Since Obey grants only one (1) Action, you can't Drain Blood since you don't have a (0) Action at your disposal during Obey. Obey is one Action, not an activation.

However, things that grant additional activations, like Reactivate, would allow you to Drain Blood twice during the turn.

I't propably a balancing thing to allow only one use per activation. Otherwise Maturing those Young Nephilim could be a bit too easy as Lilith could gather 2 Blood a turn with ease in certain situations.

-Ropetus

[Wodschow]

I'm not going to directly argue how Drain Blood works as I believe I'm under the same impression as you when everything comes down to it.

I am however kind of baffled at how you can simply dismiss the possibility of it being an 'activated ability'.

I'm also curious to know how you play, say (0) Quick Draw,then? The wording on Quick Draw is very similar to Drain Blood. Going by what you said it seems you'd only ever be able to use it in junction with Perditas Obey (Obey an enemy to charge, thus being allowed to take the Quick Draw action) which seems rather silly to me to be honest.

I was under the impression that you would 'activate' Quick Draw during your activation and then be able to get a shot during an enemy models activation.

[Ropetus]

On Quick Draw (errataed) there is a mention that it lasts "until this model makes the Strike or the End Closing Phase". Same with No Escape.

On Drain Blood there is no mention of duration, therefore it is an instantaneous effect. Seamus' Trail of Fear doesn't state it either but ti's an Aura which are lasting effects by their nature (otherwise it would be a pulse). It's the same as with Hoarcat Pride's Eat Your Fill: "This model may immediately use this Action after it kills a model...", a regular instant effect (0) Action with a specific extra requirement.

(Don't have the book here with me so those wordings might not be entirely accurate.)

-Ropetus

[Satyrwyld]

Isn't there a blanket rule that says unlisted durations default to "until Start Closing Phase"?

[tenabrae]

I'm with ropetus, I don't find it unclear. Drain Blood lists timing, it says immediately after you kill something you get a blood token, to get this benefit you take a (0) action. It would need to state you gain a blood token for the rest of the turn to work otherwise.

Similarly on Quick Draw, as Ropetus pointed out, it lists a timing and expires after that timing is met.

Similarly smell fear has a specific timing mentioned.

[Ropetus]

Exactly, the general "Unlisted durations last until the Closing Phase" only makes sense on abilities with durations. Quick Draw, Smell Fear etc. have a duration by their nature. Actions like Drain Blood, Eat Your Fill and Last Rites are instantaneous effects and do not have any durations by nature.

-Ropetus

[Lorenz]

hello I would like to put my two cents in on this topic. I admit I got a little lost as to who was on what side of the conversation but it did seem like everyone is agreeing with each other.

my understanding is this when it comes to the way abilities work like drain blood and quick draw, to name some examples that have been talked of previously, is this. they are (0) action abilities since each model is only allowed one (0) action per activation to spend it stands to reason that you are only able to get one blood counter. the same is with Quick Draw when you spend a (0) action to activate quick draw it lasts until you make a quick draw strike or until the start closing phase you have kind of a held action that can only be used for a quick draw strike. the same goes for smell fear, by activating the ability you get a held action that can only be used when the conditions of smell fear are met. drain blood is a (0) action so if you were to spend your (0) action before using drain blood you also would not be able to activate the ability unless you also had (+1) instinctual (allows a second (0) action).

ok so Obey allows your model to activate another model and spend a (1) action or charge. once you have used that action the obey is over. think of it as the model has regained its faculties. either way it is your activation not the model being obeyed. since the model has to spend a (0) action to use drain blood then it can not be done during obey since you have no (0) actions to spend.

I hope this clears it up for people

to wrap up each model has one (0) action per activation to spend and two APs these AP can not be spent as (0) actions otherwise you would just have three AP and no (0) actions. once you spend these actions they are gone until the model activates/reactivates again.

thanks for reading I hope it was helpful

[mantastyle]

What about the hanged "smell fear" ability. Last I checked if they activate it on their activation they are still permitted to charge a model that fails moral on it's activation.

[Ropetus]

What about the hanged "smell fear" ability. Last I checked if they activate it on their activation they are still permitted to charge a model that fails moral on it's activation.

Exactly. Smell Fear has a duration while Drain Blood is an instantaneous effect that is resolved immediately when the Action is used. There is a clear difference between instantaneous and lasting effects.

-Ropetus