Hordes MkII - Reactions & predictions thread (as it goes)

[n0signal]

Meh, is how I feel about Warmachine/Hordes with this long break in play. Ever since the MK2 field test for warmachine back last summer/fall I havnt played many games, nor bought anything from PP... I do agree Malifaux came at the perfect time when WM/H was in limbo due to field testing and the scirmish games are great, they dont take that long, the price is relativly cheap (compared to a full army), and the scultps are beautiful (PP has ok sculpts-units are ok).

Agreed. Altho, add to Malifaux that I also got into Infinity about the same time. I've just no time or funds to continue Warmachine now along with those two games. :surprised

[ork56]

It is a drastically different community to Malifaux.

.

Not sure that WM 'type of player' is much diff to 40k in my experience.

Malifaux def seems similar to my experience of Confrontation in the UK - ppl who like/love painting and enjoy a neat game that uses imaginitive and original model types and game mechanics.

(Conf. in Europe seems a lot more min/max power game style for some reason?)

[ork56]

I think there is a lot of doomsaying here.

PP is a great company which managed to survive a transition from home company to a giant, with extremely good communication with the fanbase. At these volumes, you can't satisfy everybody, in fact, the more you try the more you stray from a good model they obviously have.

You say there is no "elaborate mechanics"? I guess we all forgot what innovation focus/fury were back in the days.

How having a central figure that shapes your army (same as in Malifaux) strayed from the concept of other games.

So my praise where it's due.

Plenty of praise from me for PP, as compared to other big Games companies We could name, they are doing a grand job. The only issue I have with your final comment is that 'infantrymachine' as the game became strayed from casters being 'da man' as jacks became less a necessary part of the game - good on PP for trying to put that straight.

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

I'm happy to find that PP is changing back to a Jack/Warbeast type of company as I'm just getting into it on the side. That means more Dire Trolls & Blood Creations and Warpwolves/Arguses for me!!! But I'll be keeping those games as small as 25 to 35 points when it's finally out, unless I'm playing Legion. That's the only one that looks MOSTLY awesome to me, fortunately (for my $$$).

~J~

[random_vortex]

I'm a lapsed Warmachine/Hordes player (Cygnar/Mercs/Skorne) and having looked at the new Mk2 Warmachine rules I'm tentatively dipping my toe back in the water at my local game shop. There was an active league at the beginning of last year with around 30 players which meant that games were plentiful and fun. Oddly by the end of the league interest had pretty much dropped of a cliff despite the best efforts of the local Pressganger. The fieldtests were then announced and it pretty much killed off the player base (Not sure why though, maybe just looking for an excuse). Now the press ganger is having another bash at it with a Mk2 League and so far we have 6 players who have signed up. As I say I've read the new rules and don't have any major hangups with them, i think anything that helps move away from the "Infantrymachine" style of play is a welcome addition. I also have a lot of time for PP as they have always seemed like a company that doesn't look to bleed it's player base dry which I like after years playing the brand that shall remain nameless. It's one of the things that attracted me to Malifaux as well, any company where the management/designers keep regular contact on the forums is alright in my book! The only concern I have now is the "Codex" style Warmachine books that will be released (although I realise this might hint as to who the company who shall remain nameless might be :-) ) however I'm willing to give benefit of doubt at the moment and have a game in the new league planned for next week. Fingers crossed!!

[Jens]

I started with the hobby around 2 years ago - I was drawn to the hobby mainly since I loved the painted miniatures on cmon. I started buying from all different companies minatures but eventually I wanted to play something and warmachine happend to be the most actively supported game in my local store. Confrontation was declared dead and there seemed to be few alternatives at that time.

Balance: I really enjoyed the game initially even though I was never a fan of the miniatures themself (less design, more the lack of quality) - most skirmish do much matter I think.

Something I really liked is playing with synergies and that it was fun sitting at home and trying to come with a cool army list and combos. Unfortunally you could come up with army lists that almost needed specific counters or it was close to an automatic win (if both players were roughly equally good).

I played a few games with MK2 and they have toned down the strongest combos which is good. There seem to be still fairly hard counters and strong combos, but that is something you'll either like or hate about Warmachine/Hordes, but it seems much better in MK2.

Army Size: Another problem was more due to the fact of limited time and being a slow painter - if you want to try out something new due to synergies etc. you're usually tempted to field quite a few new troops. I guess this is something that you cannot avoid with any game that is designed to field 20-50 miniatures. In MKII terms that game seems balanced around 35-50 point size.

Real skirmish games such as malifaux, ron&bones, infinity, hell dorado are much more appealing to me and I love the variety of games. It helps as well that noone starts taking a game too serious. I still buy likely 10-times the number of miniatures I'll realistically paint, but at least I won't need to spend the next 2 month of my painting time for something new.

I guess you'd better check with the local players which army size they play most - at least our group almost always played 750 points in MKI (~50 MKII) and only beginners that wouldn't have sufficient miniatures painted yet would play less.

Gameplay: My biggest problem was that lack of interaction on each players turn. If you don't enforce a limited time frame at least in our local group a turn of one player would usually last 15-30+ minutes once the game really begins. The non-active player could almost leave the room. And this was the reason for some tension in some games - if your combo worked out well in a turn (and you'd be really pleased) your opponent would watch how you remove model after model from the table and he could only tell you the stats of his minatures. In short: satisfaction on one side and frustration on the other side often go hand in hand with this game. The warcasters/warlocks have sometimes very strong once in a game abilities that would gain one player almost two turns in a row - making things even worse.

They fixed these abilities somewhat in MKII and I guess there are limits to the interactiveness of larger scale games, but this was my main problem after I enjoyed some of other games that try to keep both players involved all the time (Hell Dorado, Infinity and Malifaux).

Since noone liked being ripped apart without having a reasonable chance to win - 'power gaming' was a slight concern from time to time.

By now many players still play warmachine however most spend their main efforts into multiple skirmish games. Please keep in mind, this is just my personal / local players experience with the game - I once enjoyed the game and I guess it's far from a bad one - it's a matter of what you're looking for and the MKII ruleset as such seems to be an improvement to me.

[MVM]

The only concern I have now is the "Codex" style Warmachine books that will be released!

If that's your only concern you have you can yell game on! The "codex" style books are designed to get people caught up. A new player jumping into the game needed to buy what - five books to have the stats for all their models?

Privateer has already stated multiple times that after the force books come out that they will return to the previous book format with everyone getting new stuff at the same time.

MVM

[random_vortex]

If that's your only concern you have you can yell game on! The "codex" style books are designed to get people caught up. A new player jumping into the game needed to buy what - five books to have the stats for all their models?

Privateer has already stated multiple times that after the force books come out that they will return to the previous book format with everyone getting new stuff at the same time.

MVM

Then I will prepare to commence yelling! Played a game last night and really enjoyed it. I think my reservations are all but dispelled!

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

I did notice some of those one-off abilities were a bit over-powered. Even for things that WERE NOT casters/locks. For instance, Circle's Lord of the Feast is a great model, so I couldn't help but buy it... and then I read his MkI card and what he could do with blood counters after you're done with that turn's activations. Everyone in his control area suddenly re-activates and then you sacrifice him. Could be pretty damn brutal! Then there's those nasty feats for leaders. At least the ones for the 'locks I'm using aren't really changing, it seems.

~J~

[paradox]

MK1 Lord of the Feast looks ALOT better on paper than in actual play.

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

How about Mk2?

Is he just a pretty model and nothing more, like the Nephilim Soldier?

~J~

[Thrall_Love]

LoTF is worth taking. More so I feel than he was in MKI. I rarely played him in MKI games.

Personally I like MKII much better than MKI. I got into the game because of the big stompy robots which where sadly being phased out. Rules bloat was a bit of a problem as well.

[paradox]

How about Mk2?

Is he just a pretty model and nothing more, like the Nephilim Soldier?

~J~

He's fine. As is the nephilim soldier. Don't believe the hype.

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

Yay!!! Pretty models, goooooooooooo!!! :)

~j~

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

For those of you who already play Hordes, would I be a bad person (in MkI or MkII, either way) if I made a list of the following?...:

Tyrant Xerxis

3x Titan Gladiator

Titan Cannoneer

Titan Bronzeback

or...

Tyrant Xerxis

Titan Gladiator

Titan Cannoneer

Titan Bronzeback

Cyclops Brute

... and then could a anyone tell me if the awesome Rhinodon model is good for the brute force attack? I think, if I understand the rules, that it would be great for wading into combat with butt-loads of troops, but in retrospect, doesn't look as badass as the actual model where jack/beast-beating is concerned.

Thoughts?

~J~

EDIT: Now I'm thinking Hexeris or Mordikaar would be better, along with some Paingivers & a couple of Void Spirits

Edited January 25, 2010 by Dire Hoarcat Snuggler

[DireTrollJake]

Bad person? Not sure where you would draw that from. Xerxis is a pure troop warlock, through and through. Martial Discipline is warriors only and he has no beast spells. Sure, you can give them Fury or Defender's Ward, but these are much better on a unit. His feat would be good for beasts, but again would be better on numbers.

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

I finally decided Hexeris or Mordikaar would be better with my set-up, which will vary between lots of Titans, lots of Cyclopes & Basilisks, or some mix of the above with the loverly Rhinodon as a centerpiece. For troops, all I'm ever going to do is Beast Handlers & Void Spirits. I like those best. Even making my box set Morghul into a second Void Spirit! <awaits hail of wet smelly garbage from Paingiver purists>

~J~

[DireTrollJake]

Why? lol. Morghoul is the best suited Warlock in the faction to run the list you seek...Herxeris being the only one really suitable otherwise. You are looking to go beast heavy in the troop centric faction.

[huntroll]

I'm surprised no one wrote here about the new update... I'm very disappointed in PP, they did nothing to close the power gap between WM and Hordes, instead they cuddled almost everything, "for the game balance" (especially assassination techniques, which were the key to winning against WM with certain Hordes factions).

I'm even thinking of selling my Trollbloods if things won't change. I don't want any more uphill battles against WM cheese, I've had enough of it in MkI.

Btw after a few games I start to like Malifaux better than WM/H. Even if I lose I enjoy the game, and except against a very good player with Pandora (incite, incite, incite, incite, kill with spells & incite, incite away), it feels like I had a chance and I play a balanced game. :bigthumb:

[Sturm88]

In essence? WM died shortly after Escalation was released... Rules started to ignore fluff entirely and forum trolls started to control the rules. The essence of that game has been long since gone IMHO. No longer is the game centered around the caster and jack bond nor are either the most feared on the board. Which was that games entire bread and butter to success in the early days.

Hordes from day was always a step above WM on the field and has yet to be leveled out.

Now, in regards to MK2. From what I have seen, they have made some impressive and severely over due changes. Overdue by 6 years or so, Skarrebomb anyone? However, for me, a once long time supporter of PP back when IK was first coming out, the damage is already done and I dont think there is a way I can go back. Certainly not forward with them. Since mid Superiority the quality of the mini's has gone down, in terms of art design. The subtle changes here and there are really unappealing to me. Exmample, the menofix change on the new plastic Menoth jacks. For no reason and not a good change at that.

Dont listen to me. I am a jaded player who more then obviously has a personal issue with the companies desicions. I cut out and framed one of my old B&W page 5 from original Prime.

[nerdelemental]

Well, Sturm, you're welcome here. Every company evolves and moreso with great success. Privateer did something right. For every player like you that managed to get alienated and turned aside, they managed to drag several others in. It's still a very compelling world. But, like you, I'm on a hiatus that doesn't, now, have a clear end in sight. I still try to keep mildly up to date, but can't stay compelled to really stick to it.

Malifaux fulfills my needs pretty well.

[DarkLegacy]

I'm thoroughly happy with Mk 2, both Warmachine and Hordes, but I guess that's not necessarily what this thread has turned into. I play Malifaux as a side game, Warmachine and Hordes still have my main interest in a wargame. I really like the skirmish feel of Malifaux, but miss the army feel of Warmachine every time I play. I enjoy both and can't wait to see the new stuff for either game.

[Fool]

I really liked WM for a long time.....then it got to be to many models. I sold my Menoth because I didn't have the time for two armies. I just sold my Circle because of Malifaux, and I was just done with painting so many models. Of course I now play 4 out of the 5 in malifaux.

[paradox]

I think once I can get my hands on the Ortegas I'll be interested in playing again. Justice got a little routine after the event I played in, though I still enjoy the game well enough.

I play alot of WM, though I cut back alot there. I'm back to just my Menoth now (anyone want to buy some trolls?). We are also finishing a 6 month WFB league in my game club, and I dropped my undead/VC(which I played for about 14 years and 4 or so editions) for Slaaneshi Daemons (always wanted to play them). So I've just recently finished assembling and painting about 2500+pts of Daemons, and the league has taken a good deal of my play time these past months.

I'm with Dark Legacy in that Malifaux is a fun side game for me.

[Dire Hoarcat Snuggler]

Hmm... what Trolls do you have to sell?

~J~